Can I be slightly smug about DS? Unable to in RL

[smugandsmugger]

We live in a rural, wealthy area. We are the only people in our group of friends that chose our local Comprehensive, everyone else chose the Private route.
Our friends are lovely but I know there was a lot of discussion about our choice. One person even asked me if DH was worried about his job security.

Anyway, DS got AAA at A levels and is off to his first choice of Uni. Four of his friends are going to Oxbridge.
For all the middle class angst about schools sometimes State education is the best choice.

I hear your OP.

I would feel the same.

Your son has done it without all the hand holding he would have got in private school and in an environment where he will have had to share a classroom with less able and less engaged children, something the rich go all out to protect their children from.

Roll on the day when universities are forced to 'control' for spend on secondary schooling in their admissions process.

From above in this thread.

but the majority of middle class families live in towns and cities surrounded by non-middle class families on free school meals.

Very much like the language used by the Daily Mail re refugees. God forbid that our precious (middle class children) should come into contact with anyone from a different socio-economic background. If they do, they will (presumably) be ruined for life.

I object to faith schools. We are surrounded by them, if we could have used one, DD would probably not have gone to an independent school, at least for primary.
It's not always easy to tell who are the snobs on MN!

Well done to your DS and his friends on a fab set of results. I'm sure I'd feel a bit smug in your shoes....and we've opted for private.
I don't think comparing 'individual' results from one school to another tells us very much about the quality of education in either school though. My DN has just got 10A* at GCSE in what is a very ordinary comp - he's very bright, very self motivated and hard woking. He would very likely have got those results anywhere. My DS needs the motivation of being surrounded by a strong peer group and extremely high expectations by all teachers...would be great if he didn't but that's the reality.

"I send my DC to independent school and am still very pleased to hear about the successes of children who were not as lucky."

How condescending...

Why do you assume the OP's child isn't as "lucky" as yours? In fact, the OP made it clear it was a choice to send her children to a state school.

That's exactly what I meant Toughasoldboots.

Already on this thread we have examples of 'backdoor selective' comprehensives. i.e. 'the local catholic comp' and a long standing poster whose dds go to a girls' only school which 'selects' its 'poor' girls via a nvr 'fair banding' test held on a Saturday (only motivated parents with mid or high achieving dds need apply) and a language aptitude test. This school is located in a city where 23 state schools (so two thirds of the state schools in the city) achieve BELOW the national average for GCSEs - how is this something to be proud of?

The best performing primary school round here is a community school.
And according to 1 poster who is very vocal in her support of private schools, the best performing secondary in the county, is also a community school.
We moved from the area with best secondary when our older DS was due to start secondary to be nearer to the secondary faith school.
This meant putting DC2 & DC3 into the local failing catholic primary school despite living in the catchment for the outstanding primary.
Not everyone uses faith schools to game the system, or because they believe they are the best performing academically.

The school debate always baffles me. Surely everyone does the best they can for their own DC. So why all the judging and smugness? If your DC did well at their school, you made a good choice. But it doesn't reflect at all on anyone else's choice.

That's not a dig at you OP - your friends were clearly the ones doing the judging, so I can understand you thinking 'that's you shown!'. Well done to your DS

That's fantastic! Genuinely impressive results and you've saved squillions.
But I find it very strange that you'd not have anyone rl friends to celebrate that with. Perhaps you bang on to the friends who send their dcs to private schools about how they're wasting their money and your son's friends' parents about how of course you could have sent him private

poppy it was me who said that and I stand by it.

Children who have every advantage in life are very lucky. They have done nothing yet to deserve their advantage.

I was born into very disadvantaged circumstances, and now find myself in the position of being rich. I spend some of that money on my DC's education. Damn right, they should know they have been born into extremely fortuitous circumstances. Or would you rather they think this is their due?

I now spend far too much of my time working on the scheme to widen access to Oxbridge. I don't have to. It won't benefit my children in the least. But I do it because I know for a fact that despite self congratulatory threads like this, there is a huge gap in the UK.

If threads like this were actually any real reflection of the UK state education system, then we no longer need contextual offers. We would no longer need outreach schemes etc. We should, by the sounds of it, be making contextual offers to those poor souls Eton....

So whilst I can see why threads like these are comforting they are a very easy way to keep the status quo as is. Panem et circenses.

I think the fact that there is so much inequality of opportunity in relation to schooling and that our children may be disadvantaged by this (in relation to university places and jobs) through no fault of their own just gets to people sometimes.

From a child's perspective it's MASSIVELY unfair that the brightest and best supported children in private schools have twice as much spent on their education as children in state schools. It's also massively unfair that challenging children who disrupt the learning of others are disproportionately clustered into schools full of the poorest and least able children, and there is absolutely no interest among the m/c in addressing this issue and creating a more even playing field by distributing these children more evenly across school.

The whole situation is crappy and the complacency and acceptance of unfairness and inequality of opportunity by those whose children are standing at the nice end of the uneven playing field of educational provision is depressing and a bit ugly IMO.

I can understand where OP is coming from, having had two children go through average comprehensives which don't practice back door selection and do well.

It's that attitude from some 'friends' and family that they are going private because the local schools aren't good enough for their child, (even though they've never set foot inside one), so you don't care enough for your child's education.

Or as OP found, there is a question mark as to whether you are earning enough and a certain smugness that they are earning more.

Shegotalldamoves,
As a rich person who believes in equality of opportunity, I take it you are willing to pay a lot more tax so that state school children can have the same spent on their schooling as privately educated children?

I also assume you believe in equality of opportunity except as it applies to your own children, who should have the best possible education you can afford and not compete on the same playing field as their state educated peers within your community?

Smug away op that's brilliant. Well done to your ds

smug
Well done to your DS, you clearly made the right choice for him.

nicole
Private school parents pay taxes but don't expect those taxes to pay for their children's education so its one area where they put in to the pot but don't take out. Why are the parents of the 7% of DC privately educated expected to shoulder additional burdens because the system covering the vast majority of the population has problems?

nicole interesting question about tax.

On reflection, I think I would, particularly if the monies raised were used to really shake things up. To simply spend more on the same old, same old...not so much.

What about you? Would you pay more tax? Would you work more hours to pay more?

In respect of widening participation at Oxbridge (and all the most selective institutions/courses) actually lots more money would note necessary. A change of in-school policy would prove hugely helpful, but this in turn would require a change in ideology amongst the SLT and teaching body.

Some schools already have the right policies in place but far too many are resistant.

The decision to educate my own DC privately is based on me wanting them to have the best day-to-day experience (as I see it, subjective of course). If you choose to believe that I want to keep them away from non-rich folk, or that I want their hands held, or that they are rich but thick...then that's up to you. Wrong on all scores, but hey ho.

A change of in-school policy would prove hugely helpful, but this in turn would require a change in ideology amongst the SLT and teaching body.

A thousand times yes, to this. I know it's a generation (or more!) ago, but my school (girls grammar) never even bothered to mention Oxbridge until you were about to apply for University. Far, far too late - suitable candidates should have been asked to consider it when they were starting O levels. As far as I can tell, this attitude is still prevalent.

Just ow important is choosing secondary school X over secondary school Z?

There are just so many factors. Genetics. The particular way genes combine. A child's personality/individual temperament. Their home environment. Happiness. Friendships. The adults they meet along the way. Chance meetings and events. Individual teachers.

My daughter recently achieved some academic success, and people have congratulated me - as well as her. And my reaction has been to say, 'It's nothing to do with me.' Which I suppose isn't 100% true, but is - mostly - how I feel.

I've tried to help and encourage. Not to do any harm.

Well done to your DC,OP.

Lots of state comprehensives get children into Oxbridge. Otherwise Oxbridge would be 100% privately educated students - and it is not! Therefore the next issue is what type of comprehensive? Some are still very poor and have very many low or middle achieving chidren that are almost certainly not AAA material. The very bright children, such as those of the OP, are just not present in these schools. You really cannot compare schools like this with a very healthy comprehensive in a wealthy middle class area with lots of higher ability children. It just may be your DC is cleverer than other children and it may also be that your comprehensive is outstanding and has excellent teachers. So you decided that was suitable for your child. Other people felt differently for their children.

Also, many people do not understand that private schools are not just about exam results. It is a type of club that the parents wish to belong to. It is not automatic that Eton gets better results than a comp for any given child. Clearly top public schools deliver a very different educational and social experience. If you want this for your DC, then why not if you can afford it? Some private schools get pretty average results. That is probably because they have pretty average children and are not comparable with your DC. Thousands of comprehensive educated children get better results than many privately educated children.

In my area we have grammar schools and secondary modern schools. We chose private for our DDs. I think one DD could have got higher results in the grammar, where she did get a place, but DD2 definitely would not have achieved her results in the local secondary modern because they just do not cater for her subjects and interests at all. However, my local secondary modern has just produced children with AAA results at A level. And that is with the grammar school children not even in the school!!!!

First of all congratulations - you DS has done brilliantly! But I don't think you should be smug.

However education is so much more than just a set of results. That is the reason I removed my DD from the top of the league table state grammar that she was at after 2 years and remortgaged our house to pay for her private school fees. And I do not regret it one bit - she is achieving all she was academically(the old school had a negative value-adding score despite being top of the league table!) but is also getting a much fuller, rounded education than she was. At the end of the day it is my money and my choice. Bit like buying a car or how much I spend to have my hair done.

And as for the tax question - why should I pay more tax to subsidise state schools? I am not taking up my DD's state school place but am still paying the same amount of tax - therefore I lose. The state schools are not as overcrowded, and the Government are getting my money but not having to spend it on my DD's schooling. Everyone wins - apart from me financially.

But that is my choice....