German expat questions value for money of top English private schools

[Bonsoir]

Article

[granolamuncher]

So private schools are packed with the offspring of European bankers and it now turns out those bankers believe they were sold a dud. We can mock from the sidelines but it didn't need to have been like this.

Independent schools could have made different choices these last 20 years and could now have had a more diverse range of contented parents. It was up to them but they were (largely) badly led.

[TheWordFactory]

granola one poster has said her prep has lots (my DC's had one in their year of 60).

And H. Holle does not speak for them all!

[AmazonsForEver]

Alas, Bonsoir, I have found that talking to parents does not particularly help. They are only keen on affirming the prejudices they held when choosing the schools, so the schools have to be good/fantastic etc, or reported as good, because they have spent so much money, invested so much time and so many years, and what was it all for if the school is not superb?

We are close to schools with outstanding reputations, but the only parents I have found that seemingly can be open and honest are those with children that are leaving due to relocation, or those we're friendly with that are describing their niece/nephews' experience rather than that of their own children. Parents with children there /just finished are too busy reassuring themselves the huge costs involved were worth it.

Alumni may be more forthright, but how does one find them?

[fiercebadrabbit]

wordfactory were your dcs at a prep in central London, because I am sure my dcs' prep is not an exception. European bankers live in London, like Mr Holle, that's where they send their dc to school and of course he doesn't speak for them all, but I have noted that these are people with high expectations of everything, who generally come from countries with often good (if declining) state education, who are therefore cross if paradisiacal results aren't delivered.

[TheWordFactory]

Home Counties ( train line to city).

So yes, perhaps fewer expats ( who like to live in London). Also my last child left three years ago so the landscape in the lower school may have changed markedly.

[granolamuncher]

TWF I doubt Holle Jr is the only son of a banker in his year at Westminster...

[TheWordFactory]

granola of course not! .
But W isn't 'packed' with euro ex pats. For one thing it's a lot more selective that Seven Oaks.

[TheWordFactory]

amazon could it not be that current parents are genuinely pleased with these schools?

If they were not, wouldn't they move?

Also, don't assume that by a parent saying something is fab, they mean it is perfect. Most parents seem to accept that this is unattainable. But they probably don't concentrate on minor/niche problems if the overall package is of value to them.

I know that since I have gone public about my DD leaving her current school, people have swooped upon this desperate for me to confirm that I'm unhappy. But I'm not. So I can't.

Our reasons are individual to our family and don't make that school any less outstanding.

[Bonsoir]

Indeed, Amazons, I heartily agree that talking to current parents is often fairly fruitless (I didn't suggest talking to parents, btw). I'm quite lucky in that I do get to talk to a lot of 17-22 year olds, from several countries, albeit in quite a tight social segment, and also exchange opinions with people who recruit teens from around the world to various summer programmes - now they are a great source of insights and trends over time.

[MN164]

I've been told by "bankers" in London that there is much competition between them for the kudos of sending their children to the "names" schools.

They have no time to actually look at schools, usually employ a "consultant" to help their partner (if they're not also a banker) sort out the entrance exams.

It's likely that this chap fell into the same rut of "outsourcing" everything and not really understanding what he was getting into. The office kudos lasted a short time and his kids, presumably, have paid the price for his pathetic attitude.

Schools are schools and if he missed the target 4 times, he's a ..... banker.

[TheWordFactory]

The thing with schools, is that there will always be a point when you have to give it a go.

You can do as much research as you like. You can speak to a million parents/ex pupils etc. But ultimately you won't know it's going to work for your child until you start.

That's why you have to evaluate regularly, and why you'd be plain silly to carry on for year after year, if you're really not happy. And any parent who doesn't do that, can't be expected to be taken seriously when they decide a decade and a half later that they're disappointed.

[fiercebadrabbit]

if he missed the target 4 times, he's a ..... banker.

word my oldest have just left this prep school and each year below her gets increasingly bankery, you just have to look at the parents' email addresses. Youngest in y4, I'd estimate 2/3 of the class have at least one parent working in finance and the majority have French/German/Italian American/Chinese/Russian (these last 3 not European, I do realise!) parents.There's a certain ridiculous kudos attached to having two British parents, like you were on the Mayflower. The landscape is changing very, very fast.

[TheWordFactory]

fierce I am probably showing my age when I say there was not one Russian in my DCs year at prep school .

[Bonsoir]

TheWordFactory - I think the rich expat demographic is very different indeed outside the M25 (ie there are hardly any). The concentration may be ever increasing in central London but "country" (green belt and beyond) day preps don't have much appeal to French/German/American/Russian etc city types.

[granolamuncher]

I hesitate to suggest it, TWF, but I think you're a bit out of touch with current trends. Again, there are plenty of Russians at Westminster...

[TheWordFactory]

granola there are indeed Russians in W. But the school is not 'packed' with them. Certainly not in my DS year.

[granolamuncher]

But the trend is for these schools to target the international super rich. The interesting point raised by Mr Holle's article is that not all the new customers are happy ones. That's a pity for all concerned when the schools could have avoided abandoning their wider customer base.

[Bonsoir]

I sent my DP a copy of the article in the OP.

Turns out he knows Arnold Holle

[MissMuffetisin]

He's spot on about the lack of social mobility. Seems to be getting worse, and society more divided into haves and have nots .

[Bonsoir]

The more expensive schools become and the greater the fun co-curricular element, surely the more schools resemble exclusive clubs and finishing schools? Which is a long way from most of these schools' founders' principles.

[AmazonsForEver]

Forgive me, bonsoir, I was skimming, and misread 'pupils' as 'parents'!

TWF- There are oblique comments made occasionally that suggest all is not tiptop. There aren't really alternatives, the next tier of schools are significantly beneath these in terms of quality of education, of outcome, etc.

[DarklingJane]

Bonsoir - I think to be fair some of these schools moved away from e.g. educating poor boys to go into the clergy donkeys years ago. What I do find interesting though is the proportion of an e.g. doctors salary the fees now are compared to earlier in the last century. But rather amusing your DP knows Arnold Holle. It would be interesting to know what he means by "the best" he mentions as what they were paying for, compared to his more fulsome explanation of their failings.

[Bonsoir]

DarklîngJane - I haven't seen my DP for a bit but when I do, tomorrow, I am going to quiz him as to how exactly he knows A Holle and see how we can get some more answers

[neuroticnicky]

Herr Holle is absolutely right. I have several German relatives educated in the German state system and they are are generally better educated and more cultured than the average UK private school pupil.As posted elsewhere I think that people overestimate the education provided at UK private schools ie the vast cost makes one assume that something special is being provided and people ignore the fact that most of the teaching is pretty mediocre. I suspect that if you placed children currently at leading private schools in UK state schools their results wouldn't be that different (ie genes and pushy parents are more important than the actual school). Indeed over a 30 plus year period DH and I calculated that the Oxbridge/RG hit rate among our relatives who attended state schools was actually higher than those who attended private schools.

[senua]

they are are generally better educated and more cultured than the average UK private school pupil

Would you care to expand? In what way are they better educated and more cultured?
How does German State compare to British State?