Winchester College- Sports

[Workingtoohard123]

I am presently considering senior schools for my DS. The Head at his Prep School has suggested Winchester College. The only reservation that I have is that my DS is a gifted all round sportsman (Cricket, Football, Athletics). Looking at WCs results, they seem to lose regularly at most team sports. Does anyone have anything positive to say about sport at WC?

AlphaBravo my DS would probably look like that to you. He does n't spend much time bulking up in the gym or row and obviously does n't play rugby but is keen and good at several outdoor ball sports and plays as much as he can, several hours of a lot of running around just one day last week for example not including matches.

I have also noticed that the flexibity and choice of the Winchester system has turned several boys who were put off sport at junior school and vowed between themselves to give up sport as soon as possible into extremely enthusiastic athletes or rowers or blackbelt martial arts.

As DarkJane says there is limited time in the day at any school and even the very bright allrounders who can fit so much in end up by making choices.

The talented musician at prep school who is also sporty for example to county standard in several sports and acts (there are a fair number of those at Winchester) once at senior school and factoring in the time to practise for a couple of instruments to progress at diploma level, play several hours in the orchestra or committed to the chapel choir won't also be able to train as intensively at sport as they might like or participate in as many plays or whatever. The talented musician may decide not to progress as much in music but prioritise sport or whatever else they have discovered but they choose. Sometimes for the DC (and their parents) the realisation that they can't do everything to the same level is difficult.

As the proud but sometimes exasperated mother of a DS (not at Winchester) who in his early years was always outside running around but since turning into a teenager rarely ventures outside or even opens the curtains let alone run outside, kick or throw a ball I can tell you my Wykehamist DS looks muscular and tanned in comparison!
I think Win Coll remains the only refuge for the seriously non sporty, all in the beginning try a selection of sports but some are unable to find anything that appeals and after a couple of terms don't do any, they can choose non sporting activities which run at the same time. I understand this sounds wrong to many but if you really loath sport it must be a relief. As a non sporty person (horses aside and not offered at my school) I clearly remember myself and my fellow sports haters standing on hockey pitches/athletic pitches/netball courts usually in the wind and cold loathing every minute of it and not putting any effort in at all, much to the annoyance of my fellow sporty pupils and staff. We would have been much happier if we been offered an non sporting alternative.

I really think that WC suffers for this reputation that it is not sporty - we were under that illusion before we went.
It does not force those who do not want to, to do a specific sport. But it is very sporty indeed for those who wish to persue sport.
As per above, WC is not the ideal place for those who wish to pursue a sport professionally, though saying that, we know a boy who went to the World Championships in his sport and is still pursuing it seriously at school and every sunday (exeption rather than rule though).
In a sporty house, a sporty boy will thrive - I am convinced.
Alpha Bravo - you cant have come across the boys that I know (admittedly only about 10-12)... fit, tanned, and charming (not body builders though...)

I accept (just) that the odd pupil goes to the world championship in their chosen sport but if a boy has his heart set on a GB team for most mainstream team sports then the necessity of playing against others of even remotely similar standard is just not going to arise because there is no termly main sport like most schools have so when it comes to the different sports the school lacks strength in depth.
The other week I was talking to a cricket nut teacher who coaches cricket at another school he was saying that he was rather sad to see the relatively poor standard of cricket at Winchester apparently 10-15 years ago they were seriously good cricket school my DH also remembers them as a seriously good cricket school.
But the point is that as said above you don't choose Winchster because of the sport. Winchester is nuanced, unlike so many it is multi faceted, which is why some struggle to work out in the beginning what it's all about. it does have so much more to offer than many other. On the other hand it doesn't claim to suit all bright boys.

Indeed Happy - thus my addition of exeption, rather than rule! :)

Agree that you should not choose WC because of sport, but dont rule it out because you think is has no sports. I truly think it has suffered from this (thus the lack of success in cricket perhaps?). If all 'sporty' boys rule it out, then there is no pool to take from.
As I said up thread, I agree that it is not the ideal place to pursue a 'professional' sporting career, nor is is somewhere you will gain status amongst the boys for your sporting achievements (as is the case at several other schools), but it is somewhere you will be able to enjoy a variety of sports and as I think you have said as well, pursue the sports you enjoy rather than those subscribed by the school.

Actually I think over the last couple of years-the sports results are slightly improving. Isnt there a fairly new head of sport the ex army chap who teaches physics and let's not forget that they are on the same schools circuit as the likes of St Edwards, Radley Charterhouse and Eton where sport is taken considerably more seriously.

I was being lighthearted. But it does have the reputation for producing serious and studious young men: I have no idea if the school has changed and if that reputation is now undeserved.

Before people even tell me what school they went to, I can very often recognise traits as being OE, Charterhouse or Old Wykehamist (as well as many other schools), so it certainly used to be true that schools leave a personality impression on their pupils. I suppose it's unsurprising given kids spend as much time at boarding school as home.

I would say send your child to a school where you recognise the current pupils as being similar types to your child or being the sort of young men you would want your child to become. The school's values have to chime with the family's otherwise it causes all sorts of difficulties where your child is likely to feel different or ideologically opposed to the school's ethos and rules.

Go and see those boys with your own eyes. Never mind what the masters say and ignore the glossy brochures: go and see the school and spend as much time as possible talking to as many current pupils as possible.

Very sound advice alphaBravo

I couldn't agree more alpha meet the pupils at any school preferably not at an open day and ask yourself is this the sort of person I want my DC to become and can I see him turning out like this? Many years ago I in the dinning hall of one of the houses at Win Coll eating lunch I sat with the top year and talked to a very unusual young man, now my DS is nearly the same age I'm struck by how alike he is to him. I could see him turning out like this even when he was only 9. I guess thats why it's worked so well for all of us.

"I would say send your child to a school where you recognise the current pupils as being similar types to your child or being the sort of young men you would want your child to become. "

There was a recent case of an old wykehamist murdering 2 prostitutes in Singapore. Clearly not all the boys turn out that rounded.

Timetoask I hear that some of his previous teachers said he was a nice young man . He also went to Cambridge so maybe it was there he became a bad'un My DS also tells me with relish that one of the prime suspects for Jack the Ripper went to Winchester. Had we known we would never have sent our DS there .

One of the OBs at DS's prep became a master spy. There's no hope for him

Tanith sounds like a potential Le Carre plot. Boy fated to become spy with murdering tendencies through not just one but two poor choices of school by parent.

OP - Agree with Alpha and Happy above - meet the boys - speak to some of the sports coaches and see what your son thinks.

On a lighter note , as Summerends says, Montague Druitt , still put up by people as a candidate for Jack the Ripper did go to Wincoll. That said, (and I only know this because my father was a keen and not bad cricketer) Druitt was the Wincoll schools fives champion and also opening bowler for the WC team. Also apparently good at debating. He went on to New College Oxford and played cricket for them.

So, Wincoll does have some decent sportsmen

(resisting saying " sportsmen slash all rounders" )

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Christopher_Nash

This is a more serious point. Not your son's sport WTH but just an example to say the school does have the facilities to encourage and bring boys on. I think you are wise to take your son to the school and have a look around and as a pp says you might find it suits him despite the reputation.

”Does anyone have anything positive to say about sport at WC?”

Hmmm. . . not really, OP.

But I’m just being dumbfounded why a gifted all round sportsman like your son would be looking at WC for sports. It’s like looking for a statue of Buddha in a Catholic church.

If it’s sports you want for your son, look no further than here which rather makes a certain George Christopher Nash look like an amateur.

Ah, but it's not just sports. Op is looking for an academic child who is musical, too. On that criteria, she does well to consider Winchester as one of her options, particularly as her son's headmaster has recommended it.

I'm no Eton fan but football is a "major" sport in the Michelmas half and I've heard to coaching is pretty good, in the summer half cricket and athletics are "major" sports, major sports appear to be compulsory therefore strength in depth etc which I think is essential for ambitious talented sportsman. Also as I said above I thought there was slightly more flexibility in the boarding, least that's what I thought friends have said, I think they can come out on the odd Saturday night from the beginning We know a few with boys at both and they'll tell you Eton is very different to Win Coll what suits one boy wouldn't necessarily suit the other.
OP you probably need to look at both, (and others e.g. Charterhouse) although neither show themselves off well on their standard open day/regular guided tour IMO, at Win Coll you can arrange to visit outside of their open day and meet the boys/HM's etc in a much more informal way often over lunch, you'll get a much better feel for it, you and your DS can then ask the boys themselves what they think about the sporting opportunities.

Tanith sit down and have a glass and a piece of and brace yourself for a whole list of links to Eton's wonderful music dept [tedious smiley].
This was a pleasant and informative thread with those actually in the know giving their honest and well informed opinions about Win Coll.

Are you implying my post is dishonest and unpleasant, HG? By definition then it follows that all the pages at Wikipedia are nothing but dishonest, fanciful writings which would, of course, include the link given immediately above my last post by a WC parent no less.

What’s the matter with you, HG? The way you’re going on is as though you own this thread and WC and anyone who criticises it is unpleasant. But it’s quite OK for you to criticise a School that you wouldn’t even send your dog to?

So there you have it OP, these are the type of parents you will likely meet at Win Coll!

And is this what they produce at Win Coll then - never to accept criticisms and turn a blind eye to facts? Yes, what I posted is pure facts with factual links (something you have confessed you would like to do (links) but incapable of doing) and I’d sooner believe the pages of Wikipedia than hearsay from friends of friends’ mothers’-in-law secret lovers etc.

OP specifically expressed a genuine concern about sports at Win Coll which is what this thread is all about. And I haven’t even started on the music or the academics of other schools yet. Best we leave that to another thread.

"Never accept criticism"
The words pot black and kettle spring to mind.
I and most other parents give an honest opinion on Win Coll we don't endlessly praise it to the hilt, we don't recommend it as perfect for all, we are realistic and can see it's strengths and weaknesses, I think most parents with boys at Win Coll will cheerfully admit it's not perfect, at times it's frustrating but it works for our DS's.
Your right peternas the OP did ask a genuine question about Win Coll and sport and I have given a genuine and honest answer, I also as you can see suggested sport at Eton and indeed others might be more appropriate if her DS is very talented and wishes to pursue his talents to the highest level.
"these are the type of parents you're likely to meet at Win Coll"
On quite a few occasions you have been told by parents with DS's at Eton to modify your comments because your comments give a very wrong impression of the type of parents there, I have also over the years received numerous PM's (not just from a Win Coll mothers but even from others who I regularly don't agree with) stating the same thing and I actually met a MNetter the other day who also said the same thing. No one does more damage to Eton on here than you do.

I do not recall at all of any Eton parents asking me to modify my comments. My comments are mine alone and no doubt there will be people who would not agree with everything I say just like there will be people who’d agree with everything I say. I also do not go online to say how many Eton parents, prospective Eton parents and absolutely non Eton parents have PM’ed me or met me for educational discussions etc.

OP in her opening post said she’s ”presently considering senior schools for my DS”. Some comments on this thread have made it look as if it’s WC that her son is destined for - trying to make the school fit her son rather than the other way round. It’s plainly obvious that OP hasn’t a clue what WC is like, talking only of being near to WC, having a greater possibility of seeing her son (on weekends?), possible great sporting facilities?, the prep headmaster recommending WC, etc.

I am just wondering, who in their right mind would recommend WC for a gifted all round sportsman (Cricket, Football, Athletics). I would dearly like to know the prep head’s logic on this. All I'm asking at this considering senior schools stage is to take a pause and a deep breath and provided a factual link or two. But that of course, seems to have invoked some kiasu WC parents coming out on the defensive, as ever.

The Headmaster of this child's prep has recommended Winchester. Presumably he is not only in his right mind but also knows the Op's son rather well.

Tanith, that’s not necessarily so. Believe it or not, I happened to meet up with my son’s old prep school headmaster last summer. Now, he is head of one of the premier prep schools in the UK himself and he said he’d just confirmed a certain senior school place for his own son because of the headmaster there whom he knew.

Lo and behold, this senior school headmaster has just been appointed Head of another very famous senior school and is leaving this summer. You can see the frustration and even disgust in the face of this prep school head. Clearly, his plans for his son have been messed up big time solely due to his own fault. He had arranged for his son to go to this particular senior school not because of the ethos of the senior school but because of the headmaster there. Now headmaster of senior school is moving on and his son is left dangling, so to speak.

And all this coming from a well respected prep school head himself. It’s mind boggling!