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Secondary education

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Teacher doing online shopping during lessons

65 replies

Dancergirl · 23/04/2015 21:30

Dd1 is in Year 9 at a girls' indie. We have been generally very pleased with the school so far and dd is happy and doing well.

There have been a few odd teachers who aren't as good as others but you get that in most schools I imagine. But dd has been complaining recently about the Geography teacher. Apparently he doesn't spend much of the lesson teaching, or sometimes none at all, but gives them worksheets to do and tells them to research the answers on the school's moodle.

Now dd tells me he is looking at clothing websites, M&S etc, during lessons. Of course this is completely unacceptable but I hate complaining! Would you complain and to who? Dd's not doing Geography GCSE so it hardly seems worth it.

OP posts:
MythicalKings · 24/04/2015 14:48

Let's hope your DD tells tales to her teacher about what happens at home as well.

SirChenjin · 24/04/2015 14:54

Telling tales because the teacher is doing his online shopping when he's supposed to be doing the job he's paid to do?

Dancergirl · 24/04/2015 14:59

Well call me old fashioned if you like, but I like to think the time my dd spends in school is spent being engaged in a lesson with a specialist in that subject.

Reading and private study should be done at home surely...?

Sorry if you think my dd is 'telling tales'. She is a bright and articulate girl and has a very good idea of what constitutes good and bad teaching.

OP posts:
HelpMeGetOutOfHere · 24/04/2015 15:02

You should know on mumsnet teachers are above criticism.

Sorry. I know the vast majority of teachers out there work hard and do more than they are paid for. The same as midwives, doctors, police, firefighters etc. doesn't mean that there aren't any bad ones out there. And if it was part of lesson planning he'll be able to defend himself won't he?

Grammar · 24/04/2015 15:11

My Dd 13 mentioned that she saw a supply teacher on that 'Candy Crush. thing on her phone. There was politician recently that was seen on Candy Crush The thing is, people are being paid to do a job, not to do their online browsing, shopping or gaming. It is unprofessional to be doing this...how can you justify it?

pieceofpurplesky · 24/04/2015 16:30

Teachers get 10% PPA time. For me that is three hours a week.
I teach 150 different children as I teach a core subject.
Each book, each two week cycle takes 15 minutes to mark properly. Assessments and GCSE papers longer on average an extra 8 hours a week. 12 hours per week.
I teach 25 lessons. That takes on average 15 minutes to plan per lesson (some a lot longer). That's anput 4/5 hours a week.
I also have paper work, target setting, meetings, parental contact, clubs etc.

So yes sometimes when pupils are working I will do some lesson planning, testing resources etc. it is the best way of spending my time.

Hakluyt · 24/04/2015 16:40

I thought one of the benefits of private education people talk about was being able to hold teachers to account? So I would want to know why lessons were consisting of worksheets only. Go carefully though, teenagers are prone to exaggeration...............

Dancergirl · 24/04/2015 16:44

Sounds tough piece

I'm not saying for one minute that teachers have it easy, far from it. From my school governor days I can see first hand the enormous amounts of work teachers have to do other than deliver lessons. I take my hat off to them, I couldn't do it myself.

But I think help is right. In the years my dds have been at school they have been lucky to have many fantastic, dedicated teachers. But unfortunately like any other profession, there are also poorer teachers.

I think I will say something to the school but not in an all guns blazing sort of way.

OP posts:
ShowMeTheWonder · 24/04/2015 16:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Olivo · 24/04/2015 17:00

Wow! I would firstly, as a teacher, be cross if I thought students were looking at my computer screen ,unless. I was showing it to them. I might be typing an email about another student, or something. Not good. I shop online during lessons - today, I ordered a film that I would be using in class, paying for it with my own money. If. A student had seen my screen, I would have looked like I was shopping on Amazon- I was! But they were doing a controlled assessment, I couldn't offer them help so I was getting on with my own work.

That doesn't make me a bad teacher. Yesterday, I ordered stationery online....for school. Last week, I was on yellow moon ordering craft things.... For school. I don't feel I should ever have to justify that. By all means complain of you feel the standard of work is not appropriate/ stretching etc or. Progress is not being made, but please check first.

Dancergirl · 24/04/2015 17:05

Of course that doesn't make you a bad teacher olivo But surely you can see the difference between what you're doing and dd's class REGULARLY being left to get on with work on their own.

And yes, Geography is one of dd's weaker subjects I would say.

OP posts:
Whiskwarrior · 24/04/2015 17:06

Bloody hell, people need to stop being so snarky with the OP.

I'm the daughter of a teacher and work as a TA myself. I also have 3 children. As in any profession there will be people who are crap at their job or who couldn't care less.

My own DD is in Y8 and her class went through three maths teachers last year. The second one was pulled over from IT (not his fault) and was meant to be temporary. He was there for a term and DD's confidence and levels nosedived. He was dismissive when she asked for help and spent a lot of time on his mobile - including playing games during tests. I didn't complain and waited it out. They eventually appointed a new teacher and things righted themselves. I wish I had complained though. Why should DD's education suffer?

I had my retribution though when the teacher turned up at my school to interview for the Headship and didn't make it past the first round of interviews. Obviously his crapness was obvious there too Grin

SirChenjin · 24/04/2015 17:39

Vast difference between looking at Amazon and stationery sites, and online clothes shopping though.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 24/04/2015 18:06

You should know on mumsnet teachers are above criticism not in my experience!

As a teacher I would say, if this is happening regularly andthe students are not getting decent feedback on their learning or making good progress then this would not be tolerated in my state school and the teacher would be facing competency.

So I would agree that you should enquire about it the school to put you at ease about it. I agree with pp who said teens can over state the truth, so approach with an open mind and carefully!

ChocolateWombat · 24/04/2015 19:01

It is common and accepted practice for teachers to get on with work whilst students are 'on task'. As pupils get older, they may spend increasing chunks of time on a task, such as working on a piece of research, working through a last exam question etc - if the lesson is a double especially, an individual task could easily take 30-45 minutes. A teacher might walk round a bit and would certainly answer questions raised, but could reasonably get on with other tasks - these could include some marking, preparation, admin on-line etc. They would be perfectly able to stop and walk round or answer questions as raised.

Of course it depends on the school. In some schools pupils might need someone constantly policing them to keep them working, but in many schools pupils will make steady progress with a structured task for significant periods - and they need to learn to do this - it is a key skill. A worksheet might not just be a list of questions to be answered in a book (although there is a place for this amongst other tasks) but could layout a highly complex task involving several stages,moor an individual or groups.

I have no idea if the teacher was shopping, but do know it is reasonable for teachers to be doing a range of things in a lesson and constant interaction with pupils for the full lesson isn't good for the children. If your query is about the amount of worksheets,perhaps look in the ex book and see the types of work or ask for a more thorough explanation of what has happened throughout several lessons, as children sometimes turn what happened in 1 lesson to 'always'.

You may decide to raise a query (always better than a complaint when you are not in full receipt of information) or not, but do appreciate that teachers asking children to get on with a task is perfectly normal and necessary for their learning.

Olivo · 24/04/2015 20:09

Wise words from Wombat!

woodhill · 24/04/2015 20:15

the teacher may have been doing something related to geography, shopping is one aspect of geography on the syllabus or perhaps he needs clothing for a school trip.

ReallyBadParty · 24/04/2015 20:23

I love the way in here that teachers are Never Wrong. Obviously, online shopping is lesson planning and your dc should keep their nose out.,,Grin

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 24/04/2015 20:28

I agree,that there seems to be a lot of convoluted justification here.

I also completely agree with wombat about lesson and independent learning. But this does not seem to me to be what op's daughter has described. Part of the teacher's job would to to communicate how the learning works to the students. This does not seemed to have happened for op's daughter who clearly feels insecure about the learning experience she is getting in these lessons.

pieceofpurplesky · 25/04/2015 00:20

I think party that teachers actually always feel the need to defend themselves as the generalisations are ridiculous. Of course it is wrong to do online shopping in a lesson but a lit of the later answers are to those who said teachers shouldn't be lesson planning. Of course they should when pupils are Doing assignments in which they can't get help! They took away invigilation as it was a waste of time. Watching pupils do a test with a mountain of work is also a waste.
The OP should be concerned with worksheets, shopping etc but sadly this is more common in an 'indie' school with bright pupils who will achieve with knowledge as they have the basic skills (and of course unqualified teachers and lack of constant inspection). It's a trade off to not have the latest techniques and methods

ChocolateWombat · 25/04/2015 10:19

I find the idea that worksheets are somehow an awful teaching tool or one which 'progressive' state schools would never use, and that independent schools are somehow lagging far behind and letting their pupils down, huge generalisations based on a lack of information.

To use any one teaching technique constantly is a mistake. Variety and knowing which techniques are suitable for which learning objectives is the key. Worksheets have a place - they are not the work of the Devil! Anyone who thinks a worksheet is always a lazy teaching approach, or who thinks teachers should always be giving their class 2 minute lasting, constantly changing 'active' tasks, is daft. Worksheets are simply bits of paper - they can contain information, links to other resources such as textbooks, physical resources to be used or the internet or to people! They can contain comprehension style questions, or explanations for practical tasks, or group discussion etc. And the ones which do contain some questions which then require some written answers in a book can be very important for building up a body of knowledge, or practising exam style questions - because what is an exam, if it isn't basically a worksheet.

There seems to be a suggestion that independent schools are lagging behind and out of date, using useless teachers and not subject to scrutiny. It does make you wonder why people would pay for such an approach and even moreso, if it is all so awful, how they manage to deliver the results they do. Something clearly isn't adding up!

One of the reasons why people pay for private education and why some people want to teach in those schools, is because there is more flexibility. Whilst state schools can be constantly subjected to having to implement the latest craze and abandoning past approaches, forced by rigid inspection, private schools simply have more flexibility. So they can appraise the latest craze in education and decide which aspects to follow and which to ignore. It means they can stick to tried and tested old techniques rather than abandoning them - they can use their judgement. Don't think that independent schools spend all their time sitting the pupils in rows,working in silence - there will be lots of active learning going on, but there will be time spent (and perhaps more of it than in schools where it is difficult to keep pupils on an individual task for more than 15 mins) where pupils just sit and write - and of course, doing that is absolutely vital and needs lots of practise. It's all about using appropriate tasks and those which enable pupils to learn the skills they need to obtain both knowledge and then to deal with the ways they will be assessed. And don't think there is a lack of accountability either - as well as inspections (which are less subject to constantly moving goal posts) schools carry out performance management and plenty of training - focused on the things that they need to achieve - and if the results are part of the proof of the pudding, in most cases it seems to be working. I think parents would vote with their feet if it wasn't.

There are great teachers and lazy teachers everywhere. I wouldn't equate giving out worksheets or working in a school which might hire some unqualified teachers, or might not be subjected to the whims of government and demoralising inspection with lazy or backward or incompetent teaching.

The shopping issue is one thing, but the use of worksheets and the teacher doing a task not directly connected to the pupils in front of them at that moment is something altogether different.

As always I am surprised to find how many people are quick to condemn the teacher based on a quick comment of a teenager. WE SIMPLY DONT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.

SirChenjin · 25/04/2015 10:31

Really? I thought (certainly here in Scotland) private schools had to follow the same curriculum as state schools.

As for why they get results - a selection process which ensures that the vast majority of their pupils are middle class kids with a certain level of intellect and very supportive parents probably helps somewhat. The other things that you describe are also evident in good state schools - they are not limited to fee paying establishments.

ChocolateWombat · 25/04/2015 11:24

I agree that lots of state schools do lots of good things too. I wasn't suggesting they don't, simply that the earlier suggestion that independent schools are behind the times and only use worksheets isn't correct. I wasn't saying independent or state schools are best, simply that some of the assumptions about what happens in private schools are wrong.

Independent schools here are not bound by the national curriculum. Most broadly follow it, but get rid of certain bits and cover other things they think are more important.

And I agree that the more selective a school is (state or private) the easier it is to get high results.

Good practice is good practice - it can be seen in both sectors and it can be missing in both sectors. There seemed to be several wrong assumptions in some previous posts - that worksheets are somehow wrong or a sign of lazy teaching, and that lazy teaching (somehow tied up with worksheets in people's minds) is prevalent in independent schools, whilst state school teachers are all engaged in interactive effective teaching.

I guess I would question the assumption that a teacher needs to be constantly changing activities and engaging in high-octane tasks, to be 'working hard' and to be effective. There can be too many short, buzzy tasks and not enough sitting and writing - the balance in some schools (particularly state schools) seems to be towards this constant change of activities, with little extended time given to simple extended tasks. I think independent schools are freer to keep a bigger focus on such 'old fashioned' tasks, which are hugely beneficial for exams.

SirChenjin · 25/04/2015 11:33

Thanks for clarifying that Smile

sleeplessbunny · 25/04/2015 12:09

If you're going to complain I think you need to make it about the quality of education your DD is receiving, not about what websites the teacher is alleged to be viewing during lessons. So you say something like " I am concerned about my daughter's progress in Geography. The lessons appear to be unstimulating/not interactive/poorly planned..." NOT " my DD tells me the Geog teacher is shopping during lessons"

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