Toilets locked during the day

[tapdancingmum]

DD(14) tells me the toilets are locked before, during lessons and after school. They are unlocked for break and lunch (35) minutes. If they need to go in between lessons they have to go to reception and ask to use the disabled toilets. Now I get that some pupils will mess about and probably hide in the toilets but surely this is not healthy for the rest of the students. My DD has taken to not going during the day and rushing as soon as she gets in.
I have emailed the school who tell me this is a new policy but can they do this? The school has nearly a 1000 students.

I agree this is really poor. My daughter had problems with frequent urine infections. We found out that this was likely to be due to her not wanting to use the toilet all day whilst at school, as the toilets were always dirty.
Per our GP holding onto urine too long is one of the most common causes of urine infections in children.

I think I would complain to the school.

This is very common. They usually are allowed, but as you say only to certain toilets. There isn't really anything wrong with that, except it takes longer! If they were preventing toilet use at all then you'd be OK to complain.

If a student has a medical condition related to bowels the school should have provision for that. Again, surely they aren't preventing them from using the loo, just asking they use a specific one.

Err not Ok.

And if a student is using the disabled toilets because they lock the others what happens if a students who needs the disabled toilet can't use it?!

I have a dc with a bowel problem, this type of situation could well end with him being publicly humiliated.

How many disabled toilets are available to be used? I can imagine long queues

I don't know, I think having to go to reception to ask for a key is unreasonable and some pupils may find this embarrassing.

When I was in school the toilets were locked at lunch times. I what myself once and that is the absolute truth.

Funnily enough I asked my two the other day what their school does about toilets, they say that theirs aren't locked at all.

The reason I asked was that my colleague was telling me that at her son's school they lock the toilets at all times except during lessons, so the only time they can go is during class and they have to ask to go. It's to stop trouble.

Typical school that is taking action without solving the problem, which is obviously a behaviour problem.
However before anything else email the school and ask for details about this policy and how it is being managed, so that you do have the facts before moaning about it.

My ds school does this as well they have also taken away the hand soap and often the toilet rolls because kids keep vandalising them.

Most schools have a rule that DC cannot go to the toilet during lessons unless they have a note from their tutor in their planner. Children with a genuine need therefore have no problem. Otherwise, they cannot go until break time or lunchtime. If there is a free for all then all the kids ask to go and it disrupts lessons.
Perfectly reasonable rule.

I wouldn't be happy about this either, DD's school can have 2.5 hours of lessons before a break and if DD is on a heavy period she would have change her san pro every 1-2 hours.

Of course your going get the children who like to check their phone in the toilet but it's not fair for the children who are genuine about using the toilet.

At DDs school the toilets are not locked, and there is both loo roll and soap.
I agree with hearthethunderroar I too would be unhappy if DD couldn't access the toilets specially when she has her period.

Oh for goodness sake-obviously if a child is on her period and needed to go, she would be allowed. Our toilets are not locked during lessons but I wish they were-they do get vandalised sometimes which puts them out of action for a lot longer. And students aren't supposed to go in lesson time anyway. I'd much rather they had to go and get a key -it would ensure only students who really did need ghe toilet went.

The problem may be nothing to do with the loos - what I mean is that teens (most pupils will be teens) asking to leave lessons to go to the toilets may actually be going somewhere completely different and doing heaven knows what.

This way, if a notorious (for want of a better word) pupil goes, and does not ask for the key, this can be checked up on. And if they actually have to go to the loo, and can only be away from the classroom for a loo-length time, scope for arsing round is sharply reduced.

There is provision for those who need to go, exactly as before. It's just that they have to go to a specific loo, not the nearest.

Yes, it's a pity to find out this way that there is a behaviour problem. But at least it's being tackled.

They shouldn't have to go and ask for a key, why should they have to go and explain to office staff why they need the toilet? And if ds2 needs to go, he needs to go he hadn't got time to go get a key. That's why he had an exit card so he doesn't have to ask at all.A system like this will be a real problem for some people. It's non Ok to treat people this way.

I'm shocked to hear that this common. It's a pathetic, humiliating way to deal with behaviour problems. I'd kick up a big fuss.

Surely the staff toilets should also be locked, so that the entire school community contributes to this "best practice"?

It says everything about the ethos of a school, that instead of changing behaviour by investing some care and creativity in problem teenagers, they choose to punish well-behaved ones. In my view, these ignorant people are unfit to be in loco parentis. They lose the support of parents of well-behaved children, and make no difference to the others. Failure all round.

maryso - but then the counter point of that argument is that if parents did their role of bringing up children properly then the school wouldn't need to address such behaviour in the first place. But it isn't as simplistic as that as we all know.

Even as adults we have restictions placed on us all the time as they have to cater to the worse elements of society, we just learn to suck it up and get on with it. Not ideal by any stretch, but if it was a choice between my child being bullied in the toliets away from the supervisiona and attention of staff/other pupils/having to pay more tax to repair damage done by pupils and having to have my children ask for a toliet pass, i'd take the latter. There should however be appropriate measures put in place to address the needs of those who require quick access to toliet facilities.

I think denying children the dignity of access to toilets when they need them is a restriction to far.

If this is typical stuff at state high schools, I am not surprised by all the education threads about families trying to figure out how to pay the extortionately high school fews for independent schools.

The toilets at DDs state school are open all day. She wouldn't go if she had to ask.

onemagnum - why would a school allow your child to be bullied in toilets? Would you? Because you can't stop the bullying, even when you have control and responsibility and a duty of care over the bullies? Or fine with the innocent sucking up the cost of a bad practice, one that does not change the bullies in any way? Low expectations set for teenagers help to add to the worse elements of society in a few short years. To train the others to not engage, to accept bad practice, these are not the actions of a good school.

If you accept a child, you accept what your job is. Which is to make a difference to their lives, if only that it will make a difference to yours. If we all say it is someone, anyone, everyone's role, no one will do it. It is not independent schools that do not lock toilets. Good schools do not lock toilets. It is a clear signal that management are failing. Failing to help young people to expect better of themselves and each other. Regardless of results and destinations, although those tend to improve anyway; nothing more unstoppable than a teenager with self belief.

I agree it is not simplistic. Locking toilets is simplistic. What else can be locked even more easily, that is even more detrimental to a young person? Just for an simpler life for those who could do more, do better, or do something else more suited to their values.

Schools and teachers spend huge amounts of time and effort putting 'care and creativity' into dealing with troubled kids (often when parents have failed to put in that care and creativity themselves). However, the teachers' efforts do not always work because many of these kids are too hardened in their behaviour to respond to any help that is given. Often because they have learnt this disrespectful, hostile and selfish behaviour from their parents. By the time they are teenagers their characters are pretty much formed. Blaming teachers for the fact that there are violent, bullying kids in schools is ridiculous. Most schools try very hard to control this kind of behaviour (why wouldn't they - nobody wants that kind of atmosphere in their school!) but it is very hard. It is awful that they feel the need to lock toilets .

Very well put, maryso.

I'm sure you are right holmes.

When despite best efforts from dedicated teachers, some children cannot be controlled and pose a danger to others, the answer is clear to me: exclude them. How can it be right to deny hundreds of students something as fundamental as a the use of toilet facilities instead?

If 'hundreds' of children were given access to the toilets any time they claimed they needed to go, no work would be done - there would be constant toing and fro-ing, and then those same entitled parents would be complaining that their children learnt nothing. Not surprising we have behaviour problems in schools when parents assume always that their child is well-behaved, and if any sanction is applied to them they are being 'picked on'. Parents and DC who are vociferous about their 'rights' and oblivious to their responsibility to remain in class in class time to avoid disrupting others.
In all the schools I work in there is a rule that DC do not leave the room to go to the toilet in class time. Like other I enforce this rule, so they now know not to ask. If they have a medical condition, that is noted in the planner, and they simply silently show it to the teacher and are allowed to go.

Haha- maryso as a teacher I never go to the toilet while I am teaching! This is because I realise it is my responsibility to go to the toilet during break and lunch time, to avoid disrupting learning of my students. It would be lovely if they realised their similar responsibility, too.