Toilets locked during the day

[tapdancingmum]

DD(14) tells me the toilets are locked before, during lessons and after school. They are unlocked for break and lunch (35) minutes. If they need to go in between lessons they have to go to reception and ask to use the disabled toilets. Now I get that some pupils will mess about and probably hide in the toilets but surely this is not healthy for the rest of the students. My DD has taken to not going during the day and rushing as soon as she gets in.
I have emailed the school who tell me this is a new policy but can they do this? The school has nearly a 1000 students.

Expecting children to use toilets during breaks and not to disrupt lessons is not the same as locking the toilets. The former is respect, the later the complete absence of it.

DontGoToRoehampton, are you including heavy (or irregular, no-warning) periods under 'medical reasons'?

And if so, would a blanket note of 'May need to go in a hurry' be OK at your school?

I can well remember one DC being utterly horrified when actually suffering a medical problem, in case anyone ransacked their bag or planner, found The Note, and told everyone. Ugh. (yes, anti-bullying policy was not up to scratch at that school.)

Would you complain if there were CTV cameras in the toilets (sink areas) to stop the vandalism? Would you complain if the toilets were blocked up and the floors wet with no towels etc?
Not sure what exactly the school is meant to do to fix this, other than limiting access (the point with using just the one loo being that if it's vandalised it can be easy checked who was in it that day). It doesn't have to mean the whole school ethos is poor. It only takes one pissed off child to flood the toilets.

But students do have to ask, whether the toilet is locked or open, local or by reception. They don't just walk out of the room. A child who is too shy to ask won't even get out the room. If this is a ptoblem, there shpuld be a note or card in their planner so they can "ask" non verbally.

You really don't have to ask reception for permission to wee or explain yourself to them, just say "can I have the toilet key please?" (You know, manners.)

And maryso, the staff toilets may as well be locked. Most teachers don't pee until 3.15. What with being busy teaching (and troubleshooting in breaks)

Ask to go to the toilet, that is.

Few typos, sorry.

Some of the reactions here are a bit hysterical IMO. We have this system at my school. It's not about embarrassing them or about behaviour in our school. We think it's important that someone knows where they are. They don't have to explain why they need the toilet they just hand over their planner, which their teacher will have signed and the receptionist gives them a key. If a child fails to return to class I know exactly where to send a child to to check up on them. This is vital when you have kids with epilepsy or diabetes. 9/10 times they're just dawdling but if not they are in easy reach of a first aider. As for teachers having the same rule- I've been teaching 6 years and have been to the toilet during lesson once. This meant sending an email to a non-teaching colleague explaining that I was really desperate and could she come and cover. Embarrassing but I got over it.

I still think this is really poor.

Imagine if they did this in an office environment. "Sorry, you are not allowed to go to the toilet unless it is your lunch break. If it is an emergency you have to get the key from HR."
People would not be happy at all and quite rightly so.

Just because a child doesn't have a medical condition it shouldn't mean that they have to wait. The rule is penalising the wrong people.

I had really heavy periods from age 12 this would've been horrendous for me :(

I remember going to a state high school. We didn't often use the toilets outside if breaks, but if we needed to we raised our hand and asked for the "bathroom pass." Wandering the halls without a pass would land you in trouble. Now and then a teacher would pop their head into the toilets too see what was going on. We were well over a thousand children. I don't remember the toilets ever being intentionally blocked etc. there was minor graffiti. If anyone had smoked, committed assault, or seriously vandalised the toilets they simply would have ben excluded.

It's a school not a prison.

onemagnum - why would a school allow your child to be bullied in toilets?

I've no idea why they would allow it, but my son was bullied on and off for years at primary when they are far more closely supervised so I would imagine that free access to a private place wouldn't help if the school has issues. My DSs go to a school where the toilets are never locked but I totally understand why school do.

I actually agreed with you about it not being right but I don't think it is necessary all the schools fault. It's the fact that you will get parents moaning that they are locking the toilets when some of those same parents have allowed their children to constantly misbehave and make others lives a misery.

And in general we always legislate for the worse elements of society otherwise w wouldn't need to pay house insurance, have locks fitted etc

and some of your comments seem to imply that I work in a school, I don't. i just don't happen to believe that you can blame a school for behaviour that begins in the home.

My children happen to go to a nice school in a nice area with (on the whole) well behaved children. However that doesn't apply everywhere. I was brought up in a rough area and in our school getting your head flushed or getting assaulted was a common occurrence for many. I therefore understand why they do it as it will minimise the opportunity for mischief.

I have tried twice to reply to this but can't get used to the new-fangled preview post and have hit the back button twice.........

Anyway, I did email the school and the reply I got is as follows:

^You are right the toilets are now locked during lesson time. To be honest this is not really different from the situation a week or so back. When children need to go to the loo during lesson time they simply have to ask their teacher as they always have. The only difference now is that when given permission they now use the ones in Reception rather than those in the main corridor – for girls this is a difference of about ten feet.

This is a permanent school policy and Ofsted’s visit has no relevance to it one way or the other.^

I don't know about the reference to a week or so ago but presume it relates to when it first started but I have only just got around to querying it. I do know of another couple of parents who have asked and were basically asked to prove it was against the children's human rights when that was brought up.

I know Ofsted were in but, again, wasn't bringing it up because they were there it was on picking my DD up last week and her asking me to hurry home as she needed a wee I decided to ask the school. She has also told me that she is not drinking much during the day as she finds that she doesn't need a wee when the toilets are open and doesn't want to ask to leave class. Teachers have been reluctant to let the students out and some have been heard to ask the children if they have a problem and maybe they should see a doctor. (hearsay from DD so might not be true). But children who do have a pass have been denied the right to go during lesson times.

The toilet (singular) is the disabled toilet in the reception area and they have to ask to go (it's not locked) but there have been problems when the receptionist is busy as she will see to the visitors first before the children.

I will email the school and ask to see the policy unless I can find it on their website.

I know that letting children go during lesson times is disruptive but my DD says that all she wants is to be able to nip in between lessons as they do have time.

Are people who work as cashiers allowed to just get up, leave their til and go to the loo without asking? Are they expected to wait until their break? I'm thinking they are. There are jobs when adults are restricted as to when they can go to the loo. It's a shame that a few ruin it for the many. Schools do try hard to stop the problem in other ways, lots of assemblies, pointing out that vandalised loos take away access for all and money from much needed resources, that the time wasted going to the loos in lesson time impacts their learning and can be disruptive to others before resorting to locking doors. Then the lesson is in time management. Use the break time to see to personal needs. May cut down on socialising time but that's the environment created by those who think loos are there to be broken. And for goodness sakes, we all need to go to the toilet, why be bashful or embarrassed about it? Another good lesson perhaps!

Secondary here and the vast majority of students and staff manage to regulate their loo breaks for breaktime. In an emergency a toilet is available. I don't see what the issue is TBH. If you allow free range to the toilet then you find some children go every lesson, and it's difficult to monitor. There can be children who then miss up to five mins of every lesson, that's thirty minutes a day. Someone mentioned the teacher's toilets being locked too. Well it would make no difference. As a teacher, no matter how desperate, how heavy my period, I cannot leave my classes to go to the loo. On a busy day that might be from 8.45 until 3:30. Quite often if I'm teaching all day, students to see or detain at breaktime and a lunchtime club I simply cannot get away for the time it would take me to walk to the toilet. No one I know would prevent a desperate child from visiting the loo, but It does them no harm to learn they need to go when there are gaps in the day, not when the decide they need the loo.

I don't see the problem at all. If students have to go during lesson time, they can ask. But really they should go during break times. This is standard for most secondary schools, surely?

An anecdote from a previous job. (fairly long ish)

I worked at a school where some of the pupils vandalised the toilets on a regular basis so whole locking of the toilets was done, pupils had to ask the teacher then sign the key in and out from reception (as above).

Many parents complained about this (more than those that complained about the toilets being out of use due to vandalism), the school reopened the toilets and employed a new member of staff (on a temporary basis).

The new job was to patrol the corridors and prevent the toilets being damaged (also collecting of pupils who where out of lessons). Again parental complaints this time about the school wasting money on a "silly" job.

During the school summer break the toilets where gutted, open plan, stalls in both boys and girls toilets, all doors, sinks and facilities viewable from the corridor. (not the inside of the stalls). Cameras went up outside the toilets and looked in to the room (but not the stalls).

Again parents complained about the waste of money (rebuilding the toilets), lack of privacy due to being open plan (floor to ceiling stalls no-one could see in) and finally the cameras.

Within one day of being back the toilets where vandalised. The vandals caught on camera and those that vandalised the toilets had a fixed term exclusion and their parents billed for the damage.

at every turn the school was argued with by various parents, but after the first exclusion there where no more incidents.

after the first exclusion there where no more incidents

^ exactly.

It is dispiriting how some parents constantly complain about every rule designed to protect the learning and well-being of all pupils - it is all about their own precious sprogs 'human rights' ignoring their responsibilities and the rights of other children to have decent facilities. hardly surprising the kids have such and entitled mentality when they have been brought up by parents like that

I know don't-it really is disheartening. However, there are lots of non entitled parents and children, too, who support us.

I have seen some truly disgusting vandalism in the girl's toilets and locking the main toilets during lessons prevents this. Perhaps those parents who disagree with the shutting of toilets would like to have a chat with any caretakers/cleaners who have had to clean up after the girls who think its funny to chuck used tampons and the like all around the toilets and then flood them.
Most students do not need to go during lessons and it is irritating the number of students who ask to go to toilet at the start of the lesson just after break. The answer is of course no - go in break time just like the staff do. We also have a list of students with medical reasons who are allowed to use the toilets at reception without question
.

Our DD needs to learn that she can go to the loo before she needs to, and then she will cope much better. (Does she leave the cinema during the feature because she hasn't grasped this big of planning? Long car journeys must be a big difficult for you too, so training her in this might have benefits other than school).

When she's got the hang of this, she won't need to limit drinks when she is feeling thirsty.

I think parents who are saying that it's a question of human rights are getting a little over the top.