Have not been offered any of out preferred schools, help

[JugglingLife]

I can't believe it. My poor DD hasn't been offered anything from our list (which were all 'catchment' schools.) They have offered her a place at a 'catholic' school that is miles away, minimum 3 buses through some very dodgy areas. She can not go there. We are not even catholic. It looks like I now have to appeal for all of our catchment schools. Other than 'locality' can anybody give advice on how to successfully appeal. I can't believe that we are in a position where she has not been offered any of our local schools.

I understand, but you do need to structure your arguments in a way that won't backfire on you. "I want my child to go to the best performing school in the city" won't work at appeal, but "my child has particular needs [offer some evidence] and the appeal school is best placed to meet them [offer evidence]" might, particularly if you have some supplementary arguments and can chip away at the school's arguments not to admit.

Apparently the school have said they won't be arguing too hard, says it all doesn't it. I should have a meeting with DC's head teacher tomorrow, I'm sure she will be as helpful as she can be.

Agree completely with PanelChair. Remember you are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you have been offered. Although the appeal panel is independent it is possible that one or more of them will have a link with the offered school so being negative about it can backfire.

Of course you want your child to go to the best performing school. So do many other parents and unfortunately the school can't accommodate all of them. So the fact that one school produces better results than another is not of itself an argument that will win an appeal. You need to structure it in terms of specific things your child needs that this school offers.

there is no way on earth I would send my DC to a catholic school

If the situation arises I would recommend looking at the school before making any judgement. Some community schools are more religious than some faith schools.

Is there any other schools in thed city or beyond that are doable by public transport? I believe you can also go on waiting lists for schools you didn't originally name. If you get a new offer accept it if better than the catholic school but still stay on waiting lists for all other schools.
How Long is the journey to catholic school on public transport total door to door. Is it over 45 minutes? I am sure I was told once that was acceptable limit? Experts please correct me if I am wrong. You should not be having to give up your job to get her to school. If school is over 3 miles away you are entitled to free transport. Might be a bus pass. Hence find out total real journey time. Or taxi or designated school bus.

Thank you everyone, I'll pop back tomorrow with an update and will utilise all advice.

Mary, door to door it is around 1hr 15 minutes on public transport, 3 buses. On a more positive note her head teacher has just called and will be providing us with lots of academic evidence to support our appeal. She apparently frequently gets into trouble with the appeal panels, what a star. She is very concerned about DC's vulnerability as well.

Lots of good advice on here. I would add, don't panic as there's always lots of movement on the continued interest lists.

I was in the same position, we were not offered any of our preferences. Some extremely good advice I had was not to let our son see that we were upset, just in case he ended up going to his allocated (awful) school.

We accepted our place at awful school and hoped for good news but had no luck on the waiting lists. We won a place at our first choice on appeal. I'm happy to waffle on about that if it comes to it.

Thanks Annie, I'd love you to waffle away!

Wait until the first round of CI has taken place. So many people I know (everyone in fact, that wasn't lucky on allocation day) got what they wanted after round 1. So I wouldn't start preparing your full statement just yet.

We are the only people I know that have had to go to appeal. One thing I wouldn't do, is pay someone to do your statement or represent you. They're not going to come up with anything you can't yourself with the added combined wisdom of the helpful head, google and mumsnet.

I did a huge amount of research & spoke for an hour at the hearing. They may have allowed our appeal just to get rid of me.

Acceptable time limit for travel to secondary school is 75 mins. Only a suggested limit. Not statutory.

First round of CI? I don't understand that terminology. Ours just have to sit on wait list moving up and down, we have until 27th to get appeals in, we have to accept or decline our offered school by 16th.

Sorry, by CI I meant continued interest or the waiting list.

They offer places that become available to those on the lists in roughly monthly intervals.

But yes, you're right to lodge your intention to appeal in the meantime. I only had to register to appeal with a brief written statement at that stage.

OP similar situation we had to put up with some years ago. Please don't panic! There will be plenty of movement before the closing date for accepting the school offer! We accepted the offer given for the satisfactory school we didn't name on our DS application, then ensured DS's name was on two waiting lists of our top 2 preferences and five months later we received the school place wanted. Good luck! Please keep us updated.

One thing I wouldn't do, is pay someone to do your statement or represent you. They're not going to come up with anything you can't yourself with the added combined wisdom of the helpful head, google and mumsnet.

I quite agree.

The appeal process has been designed to be manageable for parents without needing representation. Lawyers or "consultants" waltzing into the hearing trying to be Rumpole of the Bailey are the last thing you need. There is a book by Ben Rooney that some people find helpful (although I've not read it, and what I know about it suggests that it doesn't offer anything you won't find on the myriad of threads here).

Juggling, something similar happened to most of dd's friends and they are all appealing. Based on the fact that they would have to travel an hour on several buses and walk between the stops to change etc, to a school 8 miles away.

Our primary used to be 'in catchment' and feeder school to our nearest, which is oversubbed for the first time ever (people used to fall over themselves to avoid it: no longer). We have a geographically weird shaped borough, and that is a big part of the problem: the nearest schools are out of borough.

Our Head and Govs are behind the parents, this is a major problem ongoingly - not just this year, but this is the first and all are in shock.

I wish you loads of luck with your appeal, and please know you are not alone x

Thanks again everyone for your amazing advice and kind words. I agree with comments regarding using a 'specialist' to appeal, it feels to me as if a panel would frown upon that kind of thing. It's a very personal journey and it is all about our DC, who we know best, why would we use a stranger for that. Anyways, you lot are free on mumsnet

Your MP can talk to the council, but your local council runs the LA and the schools admissions system, and has the responsibility for providing places. They are the ones that decide about adding extra classes etc, so do contact them as well as your MP.

Not much help but I am lurking as due to go through this agony next year. For appeals, I have experience on different committees, not school related but if it is not based on facts, you are sunk. My local authority for example makes it clear that a 75 minute journey is seen as 'acceptable' so although we know 1hr 15 mins for a child (times two!) is horrific, they will close their ears. Likewise for achievement, 'all the schools are capable' of delivering in their eyes. From speaking to other parents only type of appeals that work are fact and sadly not emotion based. Juggling, I am human and can only imagine what you are going through I do get feedback from others who've been through the process that those on the reviewing end are automotons. However it sounds as though you have a few guardian angels such as your current Head who will help you. Good luck, although that being a human sentiment, maybe I should wish you 'excellent results from your well thought through and phrased fact based argument, supported by those who have insightful experience and knowledge.' Less seriously, let rip!

Fionaf - It is not a great feeling when, as a member of a panel, one meets lovely people for whom one might wish to be able to wave a magic wand yet one knows they are going to go away disappointed. Panel members are not devoid of human sentiment. Most of us live in the area where we hear appeals, many of us have children in local schools and we know how fraught the application and appeal process can be. But the fact remains that appeals have to be based on facts. How on earth could they be decided otherwise? Whoever most wants the place? Whoever rants the loudest or longest at the panel? Not only would such an approach be ridiculous, it would be subjective and, perhaps more importantly, it would make the appeal about the parent and not about the child, who is supposed to be central to the whole thing.

Naturally, parents see the appeal as being about their child (and so it is) but the panel also has to think about the children already at the school. Of course parents are disappointed if they can't get a place, but parents whose children find themselves in a class of 33 in a school designed for classes of 30 will feel their own sort of disappointment. Those are the competing interests that the panel has to weigh up.

My first thought was to decline the place that she has been offered, however I am now thinking that we should accept that place even though I have no intention of sending her. Am I correct in thinking that if a panel had x no of appeals where the children have at least been offered a local school and then my appeal where the child has not, will hers stand out above the others? On top of the structured arguments that I will already have raised.

There is a separate thread in Secondary Education about accepting/declining the offered place, please read it!

The short answer to your question is that being without a school place won't advance your appeal at all. Frankly, if you turn down the place and then try to tell the panel that you need a place at the preferred school because your child has nowhere to go, you'll be in much the same position as the (mythical) person who killed their parents and then asked the court to be merciful because they were an orphan.

When weighing up the "prejudice" (ie disadvantage) to the child in not being admitted to the school, I do tend to think that not having access to education in any school adds to the prejudice that a child might face. But that is where the LEA has failed to make any offer to the child, not where the parent has turned an offer down. Panels cannot award places on appeal because parents have rejected the initial offer - if they could or did, everyone would do it - and may not respond well to anything they perceive to be an attempt to hold a gun to their head. You need them to think you're a reasonable person, so that they give you the benefit of any doubt.

Don't decline the place. The LA is not required to offer you another one. If you reapply they may just be able to find you one in a worse school, even further away.

Appeals do not favour someone just because they didn't get a local offer. They are decided on which child most needs to be at school X.

However if you live close but just not quite close enough, then you stand the strongest chance of getting a place from the waiting list if there is any movement.
As I have said before my son got a place from the waiting list and he started at at least place 25 (I didn't ask for where he was for a little while).

Ok, found it, accept the place it is then. I wondered why DC's head was questioning her health when we chatted yesterday.