LEH OR G&L

[cristalclear]

can't decide between LEH(with music scholarship) and G&L. Any sugestions?

Nightmare commute, please don't do it. You're - politely - bonkers to think G&L is somehow "better" than LEH, they're both great schools, plus LEH has given you a scholarship. Absolute no brainer.

I have heard from a friend whose DD just left that the G&L intake has become much richer than it used to be with the IB attracting all the wealthy West Londoners whose DDs are aiming for top US/Canadian Unis.This also seems to be suggested by the Good Schools Guide which says " Lots of Gucci and Fendi handbags at the school gates as well as the odd chauffeur dropping off a daughter of a Russian magnate". Although we liked the G&L site a lot and are impressed by G&L's recent academic performance, this "super rich" reputation rather put us off and we feel that DD (who is currently at a state primary) may be more comfortable at LU where she also has an offer and which seems very down to earth. Can any current G&L mums confirm that their handbags cost under £1000 and that there are plenty of normal local girls there without chauffeurs/butlers etc?!

IT sounds like you're based somewhere round where I grew up. I went to G&L although LEH was a much nearer option. I had a bit of a monster commute (bus, train, tube) or one very, very long slow bus. Took an hour and 15 usually.

It was a big deal - it meant I didn't see much of friends outside of school because they all lived miles away. I loved the school and was quite a self-reliant child so got on with it - but I also I started when I was older (joined in the Upper Fourth). I think it would be too much for a younger child.

FWIW I live in the centre of town now - early commuting put me off for life!

Cristalclear, we accepted LEH, but we never applied to G&L as it is too far from us. Our decision was very much influenced by the proximity of the school as we understand the studying will be demanding so to have much sleep is crucial. Regarding the comment that G&L produces the citizens of the world unlike LEH, I can only say my daughter is a truly multicultural child. She is of mixed background, with non-british mother and she comes from the international school in Asia, from the country some people in Britain never heard of.

She also found LEH maths exam very easy.

One of my DD's peers travelled to G&L from Teddington, only two changes but an early start, and they regretted that decision and the journey. It really added to her levels of fatigue. They have busy tiring lives at these schools especially if she is a serious musician, why add to that needlessly? I have actually known girls leave G&L and LEH in year 9 because long journeys had become too much. Added to the tiredness was the fact that they were doing the journey alone and none of their peers lived locally.

Just one morning's encounter with the journey and the Hammersmith roundabout convinced me that the Hammersmith schools were not really an option beyond Richmond.

Whilst I know that some girls chose G&L over SPGS, LEH because of the bus network actually has a bigger catchment so you will get some very bright girls who cannot access the Hammersmith schools.

Not that it tells you anything LEHs results tend to be infinitesimally better than G&L generally, don't go on last year's A2, it was a blip due to the cohort. The destinations are down to the girls, G&L have a Central London catchment so their girls tend to favour US universities more but girls do go to Yale etc from LEH, especially the rowers, plenty of experience should you need it. Again don't go on last year's destinations. The new Head at LEH is making a lot of changes for the better and is well liked which will make a difference as well.

They are both schools that enable bright girls to achieve their potential so it should come down to your DDs gut feel about where she will be happiest, taking into account a journey that she will without doubt, when she has a lot of homework for public examination and after school activities, come to hate?

And there are plenty of citizens of the world at LEH, quite a significant cohort who are expats, have been expats or are from different cultural backgrounds. They are just not ones that live in Chelsea

Lynharvey I'm a current G&L parent and my handbag comes from Accessorize! The families you're talking about do exist at the school, but they are a small percentage and their presence really is not reflected in the ethos or day to day experience of the school or girls. I'd be surprised if LU's intake is significantly different - I think the fact that they are relatively central means they both attract that demographic to some extent. The vast majority of families are perfectly grounded though, and I've yet to come across one that has staff!

cristalclear how much of your preference for Godolphin is based on what you've seen of the school and how much on its perceived superiority? There are quite a few old threads on the differences between the schools - they do seem to have a slightly different feel, but much as I'm a G&L fan I don't think it can claim to be 'better'.

There are certainly some very glitzy kids at G&L, I hear some pretty amazing stories about birthday parties etc. That is true of all London schools to a certain extent, but I imagine less so the further out of the centre. But the OP may want her dd to mingle with celebrity offspring, her shout!

Nor is there going to be a shortage of Mulberry handbags at LEH, the buses serve some very wealthy areas of Surrey, private estates where mansions with swimming pools are the norm. You will obviously get some wealthy parents at all these schools but equally both G&L and LEH work quite hard to encourage and enable pupils from state schools and less wealthy backgrounds, and their status makes them an aspiration for a lot of families who put education the top of their financial priorities.

This really is a no brainer - both fab schools ...., really nothing to separate them. My daughter is at LEH and the music is outstanding - truly awesome.... She also travels a distance and though it's easy on a coach it's still an hour between school ending and her getting home. I think the girls at G&L are probsbly a bit more 'city' types - catchment of west London rather than Surrey - they can hang around town after school - my daughter can't and I'm kinda glad about that right now ! Good luck with your choice but I can't see a good enough reason to choose G&L over LEH when academically they are so similar ???

Maybe your daughter found the LEH entrance exam easier because the school was a better fit for her style of learning? Maybe that's a good match?

I would never send my dds on a 3 train journey. We live near LEH ( where my dds both attend) and my dh and I both work in central & west London, each with a 2 train journey. It is exhausting and sometimes very problematic for us as adults to negotiate and deal with. I would not contemplate my dd having to cope with that as well as the homework, clubs etc every day. She may say it'd be ok now, but a term in, when she is tired of getting up in the dark to commute to school, you WILL regret it.

It would be a no-brainer for me, with the distance, local friends, travel and music scholarship too.

I don't think you should put your daughter through 5-7 years of a three train journey - that will seriously impact on her study time let alone anything else

I went to see LEH again and I was very impressed about the school and the way that the Director of Music talked to my DD. From what she said looks like my daughter made such an impression! For a moment I thought that she might change her mind and opt for LEH. But at home she said that she will make her decision after we'll SEE G&L in Monday. It drives me crazy that she is even more determined to go there. I talked to my husband and we are considering moving closer to school.Now it will take us 40 min to get To G&L , but we have to change 3 trains. So...

Its not unreasonable for her to want to see both schools. However take her on Monday morning by public transport leaving at the normal school time. Crowded trains, crowded platforms. Better still get her to carry a heavy rucksack. Tell her the journey has to be part of the decision. DD commuted 40 minutes which is the maximum she or I would have wanted. However the journey was very reliable, frequency of trains was good, and she was commuting out rather than in so got a seat.

Both schools are big enough for her to find "her people". It sounds as if at LEH she will have a ready place in the orchestra and thus a ready pool of friends beyond her class. This is important in what are often the socially difficult Yr7 & 8.

I also sent my daughter into the tube ahead of me. It was scary seeing this little girl swallowed up by the crowd. Not least because a rather dodgy looking man decided to watch her in an odd way. She was fine, but she already travelled home on her own during Yr 6. Unusual at the time, but a real advantage when it came to year 7.

Where will she be travelling from each day if you don't move nearer?

Mulberry10: "The families you're talking about do exist at the school, but they are a small percentage and their presence really is not reflected in the ethos or day to day experience of the school or girls... The vast majority of families are perfectly grounded..."

Apologies for intruding on a discussion about G&L and LEH but is the above observation also true of other West London indies (eg, Latymer Upper, SPGS)?

On the subject of trying the commute...make her do it with heavy rucksack, sports bag, swim bag, art folder and musical instrument...

I see the girls/boys getting on the coach for LEH/Hampton and they struggle with all their stuff...I would hate to have to do that on public transport.

True. Dd is going to KGS with an easy 3 stop train ride. However I freely expect to be whizzing her down to Kingston bridge on the days she is overloaded with kit/musical instrument.

Have to say I'm glad my girls are in older years as you sound a like nightmare parent. You would consider moving away from a perfectly good school to be closer to a school that wasn't even your first choice, spgs was, when you weren't even considering moving beforehand. Or you're saying that to see how your poor dd does with the travel to make yourself feel that you might if you need to because g&l offers so much more than leh, which few would agree with. I'm not sure but I'd guess you're in Kingston. If you are you're living in lala land if you think that's a 40 minute journey door to door at 8 in the morning. On paper you really come across as one of 'those' parents. Earlier in the thread you said that your daughter would like to have the options of IB and studying abroad. She is 10 or 11, seriously that's not her talking at all. My 12 year old doesn't know what IB is really and is certainly not thinking past GCSEs. At 10/11 I was trying persuade her that she really was too old for build a bears. Apologies that this is not in any way constructive but reading between the lines it does seem that you are set on g&l and I very much hope you choose it. Do the parents at leh a favour and go for g&l, please.

I agree strongly with people above. Get her to do the commute in the morning rush hour, carrying a school rucksack, a musical instrument and music folder, a swim bag and a lacrosse stick. (use a tennis racket or hockey stick). Lacrosse is a BIG part of the G&L sports curriculum, like LEH. And compulsory even if she has no interest in making the squad.

My dd regularly has a load like this for the ten minute journey on the school bus that leaves just 2 mins away from our house. Even that gets her sighing at 7.45 in the morning. Oh did I mention, school starts at 8.45, but girls often all meet up at 8.15 for a school breakfast, swap homework notes, test each other for vocab test later in the day, weekend chat etc. It's the social part of school day and quite important to my daughter to be in for that from time to time.

On your practice journey, do NOT assist her in any way, in terms of carrying her heavy load, giving up your seat or even pointing her in the right direction of the exit or prompting her where to get off. Think about what her alternative route would be if nothing is going in or out of Richmond station or a.n.other keystone station she would need to use. (has happened to me x 2 recently.)

In fact, follow at 30 paces, so she doesn't have your jolly banter to keep her mind off the stress of the journey.

A similar route is the bain of MY life, carrying just a handbag containing a light Macbook Air and an umbrella! But at least I get paid to do it! And I only make 2 changes, not 3. My journey can take anything from 50 mins to 1hour 50mins, depending on the state of the transport system.

One of my dd's friends has a long, difficult commute, she really pities her. "Poor friend, mummy , she can never join in x or y and her mum has said she cannot go to afterschool club z because she'll miss her travel connections." Don't let your dd be that child.

I wouldn't wish it on an 11 year old.

It is not just the time taken on the journey, which may in theory, all three changes working perfectly, be 40 minutes. It is also the time she will have to set out. If the journey picks up the district line at Richmond there is a particular train that the Hammersmith school pupils all pick up, she will want to be on that, I can't remember the exact time but it is early, 7.30ish. So in the case of my DDs friend that meant a train before 7am from Teddington. That is a very early start and believe me you want these teenagers to be in bed for as long as possible, they struggle to go to sleep early even if you could lock them in a darkened room at 10pm, it is physiological nothing to do with parenting, and if they have had rehearsals, then homework they won't be getting to bed early. Teenagers can be horrible at the best of times but an overtired one? And tired minds don't work as well, ask any teacher.

And if you are moving further in you are going to be downsizing, and you are going to be the ones living with the consequences of her decision, it is not a decision that should lead to extra stress on the whole family...

I normally say that the decision at 11 should be theirs, because they are the ones that live with it, but in this case the weight of Mumsnet really does make it a no brainer.

I wonder how much this is due to bigging up SPGS as a destination school, and G&L seems like next best and a consolation prize for a child who feels she has failed you. Time to big up LEH and all its advantages and how very very very proud you are of her music scholarship to one of the most academically successful schools in the country, and certainly one of the most musically successful, Choir of the Year etc.

Hi OP,
I am in agreement with all those who said constructively that the commute is a deal breaker. When I made my slightly tongue in cheek comments earlier in the thread I had assumed the commute was equal between the two schools and you had the luxury of as one poster said a few years ago of ‘whether to wear the diamonds or the pearls’ - not that I have either I would have picked LEH for my DD in a heartbeat rather than sending her on the commute you are planning. Our friends who send their DDs to LEH are down to earth lovely people as are our friends who have daughters at G&L. They are both great schools as I said. Your DD will find her niche in either school and will be happy. She will most definitely not be happy with a 3 change commute.

This thread is really distressing me! Please listen. Your dd didn't get SPGS but did get LEH. This is the destination school for the brightest girls in Teddington, Twickenham, Hampton, Esher etc... Only one from dd's outstanding primary got in. And your dd has been offered a music scholarship to arguably one of the most musical schools in the country. You should be SO proud. To even consider a complicated journey to a school you perceive to be marginally better is pure lunacy. You are not putting your dd's best interests at heart. The "IB" argument is you not your dd, and at 11, is a nonsense. Let your dd change school for sixth form if she wants to then but for the next 5 years the logistics are critical.