poor kids in rich schools

[Kenlee]

I was rather disgusted with a parent from a so call rich school in HK saying that her child does not mix with the local plebs. Even if they attend the same school. "Scholarship should not be allowed. They should go to their own schools."

Thank goodness my DD is educated in the UK. Where having wealth is not seen as important but having good values is.

Errrr I was this kid in a uk school, won a scholarship. Let me tell you, I faced this EXACT attitude!

Why do people with enough money to send children to private school send then to state? Either because they don't think private is better than state (and there are plenty of duff private schools about) or they want to do other things with their money - houses, cars, holidays. Both fair enough.

As for us, if we go private, as we might, it will use up everything we have. For the right school am prepared to do that. Never been one for cars :)

My daughter had a bursary to a local.independent school. There were wealthy parents but also parents who just worked very hard to send their children. I never felt inferior to the rich parents and neither did DD. The parents like me organised school events and the rich ones tended to donate things so it worked well.

I think it is down to individual's own experience. Two parents or kids from a same school may still have completely different experiences any why. There are still some grammar schools counties in the UK. They are state schools however many of gss take in large % of kids from private primary schools or those who are able to have private tuitions. Many rich people take advantage of the state system to save money and keep the money to give themselves even more extra advantages. I don't blame these rich parents as I would do the same if I were in their position. Why not! These parents are tax payers too. I blame those in power who allow such system exist. However you really need to live in the country and be dependent on the ed system to truly appreciate the goods and bads.

Just change the scenario for a bit. I was better looked after and respected while in a private dental surgery than comparing to an NHS (government funded) one.

Kenlee, That's why I said your dd is in a UK boarding school and yourself is not at the school gates to meet other parents and kids everyday. So your experience isn't the norm to most UK parents.

Grass are always greener in other people gardens.

”I was rather disgusted with a parent from a so call rich school in HK saying that her child does not mix with the local plebs. Even if they attend the same school. "Scholarship should not be allowed. They should go to their own schools."”

It is undoubtedly very clear to me that parents with such an attitude clearly need an education themselves much more urgently than their offspring. Clearly, their mindset is still permanently locked up in a little container of 18th or 19th century vintage. But I’ve been reading a lot recently about wealthy HK individuals and how they mistreat fellow human beings less fortunate than themselves with the utmost cruelty. This is indeed quite alarming in the present day and age.

”. . . why should people get something for nothing when everyone else is paying for the privilege?”

Don’t know exactly which you’re referring to - scholarships or bursaries - but since OP quoted the former, "Scholarship should not be allowed. They should go to their own schools", I take it to mean the former but in any case the latter is just as valid. . .

One must be incredibly short-sighted to adopt such a view. You must have heard the saying, “There’s no such thing as a free lunch.”

People often have the misguided idea that scholarship winners are the lucky sods who are getting a free education for nothing, or so they thought. Well, I’m afraid, it’s a two way traffic. The scholarship givers (schools, universities and other educational establishments etc) need the talents of their scholars be it academic, music, sport, etc in order to advance their own motives. Scholars often bring back to their benefactors invaluable returns in the form of academic success, music and sporting accolades and prizes of all descriptions. How do you put a value on all these achievements?

To me and most scholarship winners alike, a scholarship is an unwritten contract between the giver and the recipient; and between the recipient and society at large. When the life of the scholarship is far long gone, the pay-back time is often unlimited. Successful scholars often give back to the school(s) far, far more than they had ever received from the school(s) in the first place. Peter Beckwith, who himself benefited from a Harrow scholarship is just one example of very many. I’ve heard of an Old Etonian casually pulling out a cheque book and instantly writing a cheque valued several £million (£8 million?) without batting an eyelid as a donation to the School all in the course of an unplanned, chanced meeting with the Head!

So these so-called wealthy HK individuals that OP refers to don’t really know the light of day or where they stand in relation to the scholars of their DC’s school. Even in the King of Schools - never mind the School of Kings - scholars are highly revered and respected! They are the heart and soul of the School whose pulse set the entire School ticking.

Great post peteneras.

Peneras, good post but the news article. Again it is about an individual mistreated another individual. Many people believe they themselves deserve better and respect than other others. That sort people can be found in every part of the world. It s in the news so it is an extreme case.

If we don't separate personality and nationality or gender or background then we start to form prejudice and stereotypes.

Kenlee

I like your dh, and I'm a fellow northerner, state educated, very poorly.

"Just change the scenario for a bit. I was better looked after and respected while in a private dental surgery than comparing to an NHS (government funded) one."
I experienced both for DS1 who required surgery x2, the private was hospital was pretty mediocre the NHS amazing. Ditto dental practice after years of going privately I found an NHS dentist, I have one particularly troublesome tooth the NHS dentist is the first person whose actually listened and came up with a solution.

Happy that s good. Our NHS dentist keep changing and cancel our appointments without even contact us before hand. So again it s individual's own experience. I do like our local NHS hospital it s wonderful.

You can't buy class though, can you? It's all in the breeding m'dear.

OP by the way that shows how class conscious many people still are in the UK. I say there is at least one good thing about Chinese culture. In the east "if you don't do well it is because you are not working hard enough. But over here if you don't do well it's because you are not clever enough." It's all in the breeding m'dear. So forget it! No wonder we have such (why bother) benefit culture.

But do we have a "benefit culture"? Don't you mean we are more generous to the less well off? I wouldn't want to be a poor person in Hong Kong - they don't cease to exist just because nobody gives a toss about them, and aren't all rich because they have to look out for themselves without any support...

Kenlee - can you not understand that your attitude that if you are rich you should pay for your education so as to "free up spaces for the poor" in state schools is not so very different from the attitude that there are schools for the rich and schools for the poor and very seldom should they ever meet?!...

Also, if the rich pay more tax than the poor, then in what way are they not paying more for their children's education by using state schools, as is only fair, given that they have more to give? If you think they are still not paying enough to use state schools, then I guess you believe they should pay more tax than they currently do - something I wouldn't disagree with... Although I'm not sure that is what you are meaning to say...

In my opinion, if the state is not providing enough state school places for all those who wish to take the up, then the state is failing in its duty. It is not my view that the problem is rich people are taking poor peoples' places...

rabbitstew
In my opinion, if the state is not providing enough state school places for all those who wish to take the up, then the state is failing in its duty.

Absolutely.
It offends me a lot that certain LEAs actively restrict the lawful number of state school places to force people to go private (yes Kingston, I'm looking at you)

Where there are sufficient state school places, even the rich use them, so the schools do better
and the positive reinforcement continues

those parents who WISH to segregate their children can still do so
but no parent feels FORCED to choose fee paying over resource strapped private

and yes, those who use private are not taking up their £5000 a year state school places
but they ARE spending several times that much to get a similar service

Contrary to the views of the DM and it's readers few on benefits are laughing all the way to the bank or are claiming benefit rather than getting a well paid job.

I don't have problems with benefit to whoever really needs help. I myself may need such help one day. At the moment we pay 40% tax too. Our dcs go to reasonable state schools that s because we can afford to live in the area. It's unfair. We are not muddle class or bottom class. We are just people.

I believe Hk has benefit available too however I dont know much about it.

actually it was a tonge in cheek comment. It was meant to deride those in state who think they are better off than the rest.

My DH being from low stock (his words) was lucky enough to do well at school. Despite his disadvantage of child labour. He often would be cooking in the kitchen late at night (BTW he is an excellent cook) with his text books out. We still pay taxes on our properties in the UK. He worked hard as all Chinese tend to (but not all).

My DH as always stated that he prefers our DD be privately educated as his state school was dire. He did get a first with honours at UCL (state also produces clever people too) but he said it could have been easier if he was in private.

The jury is out on wether our DD will succeed or not. We found that most commonplace is that first generation Chinese migrants work hard labour intensive jobs. Keep their heads down and out of trouble. Those that did not gamble will save and save to buy properties to rent. Their second generation off spring will work at education. They want no part in the hard work as they are often drafted into to help. Education allowed them to join the professional class. This however impacts on the third generation. Who become rather spoilt. My DD being a point in case. She hated being tutored for hours on end. Something we would have loved just to get out of work. She hated school work it was boring. Yet in the UK she is independent does the work and enjoys life. Yes we pay for her to be happy. I could spend my last dollar and not regret it. Her friends are really down to earth. which at a local international you will never find....

Nick HK has a system similar to the UK NHS the wait times are similar too. although now you fo have to pay 100 HKD for A and E.

I'm sure they do get social security too and social housing. Although the wait to get on social housing is quite long...Thus the unlucky ones live in cage rooms. Which to be honest you literally could not swing a cat in. The rest of us who are lucky enough to be employed pay 16% tax. We don't begrudge it nor find anyway to avoid it.

We do not use the local health service but opt for BUPA. HK is very pragmatic in that its citizens are asked to use private if they can afford it. So you pay your taxes to help others not yourself. The elderly get to travel on public transport for 2 dollars. This is to get them out of the flats to get them moving. Thus reducing the health impact. So less elderly in hospital care. All Education is free up to end of secondary. Grants are given at low intrest rates for student.

How is this achieved. The govt will charge you 100% tax on any car you buy. They will charge you 20% tax on any second flat you buy. Note a 1,000 sq foot flat sells at around a million pounds. They reclaim land from the sea and sell to property developers at a premium. All dealings on the stock market are taxed. Yet if you earn under a certain amount you live tax free. That is Chinese communism for you. Tax the rich to pay for the poor.

Kenlee my dd s the same. I used to nag at her a lot. I just got too tired and decided to relax. So after Xmas only once or twice a week I ask her if she has any homework. I now can see she is actually quite diligent with her school work. She does do all her homework on time. She has made really good progress over the last term. She still keeps on telling me school's boring and doesn't like all the subjects etc. I like to believe she is only trying to get my attention.

I actually do think it is really dependant on the teachers. If the teachers work out how to engage her. She is really up for it. Sadly at her state primary it was a case of memorize and regurgitate. So she literally did no work. She was able to get good grades as she did listen in lessons and the hours of tutorials after school did pay off. She was not a happy bunny. She now is taught engaged and happy...

Kenlee thanks for enlightening me with the info.

I wouldn't like to be a poor person in HK or UK or USA or EU or anywhere in the world. In the UK we have many people live streets and families desperate for social housing too. Some poor families find it hard to feed their kids during school holidays owning no school meals provided while at home. If you want to find problems of a country or city you will find them. If you want to see only good things you will see them too.