Which foreign language at GCSE?

[AnnaG]

Would love to hear your thoughts on foreign languages.

DC has to choose his GCSE options soon and has been asking which second language he should pursue. He is currently doing French. The options are: Spanish, German, Latin, Russian and Mandarin.

I've told him to go for either Spanish or Mandarin, but have my reservations about him doing Mandarin (he's already voiced out that the teacher has a reputation for being not so nice).

Which language would you say would be the most useful for the future in business, travelling, etc.

I can't comment on which language would be the best option, but don't let your DC be put off by the teacher. My DD was worried about one of her teachers this year, and he clearly started the first lesson off as he meant to carry on making it clear of the consequences. However, she now acknowledges he makes the subject interesting and that as he has the attention of the whole class they are all concentrating not messing around.

Spanish is spoken in lots of different countries. Good for travelling.

China is important economically.

I'd go for one of the "traditional" languages taught in UK schools: French, German or Spanish. Most people in the world have at least one of these, or English, as a second language, if it's not their first.

French and Spanish are more geographically widespread (think Africa and S America - both upcoming regions of the world). German is really only spoken in Germany, Switzerland and Austria, but lots of the countries to the east of the EU, near Germany, have German as a second language.

Mandarin is incredibly difficult, which combined with a nasty teacher, might make for a hard going 2 years.

Latin is useful if DS wants to be a linguist in the future, but from my experience of DDs doing language GCSEs, none of them will equip anyone for business doings without a lot of further study post GCSE.

how old is he and has he learnt any of these before ?

What does he want to get out of doing a second language? Is it something he enjoys? Something the school insist on? Something that vaguely makes sense in that timetable column?

I suspect Spanish would be the easiest to pick up if he already does French, as I believe the concepts are similar, so that might be 'easiest'

German and Latin are far more rule-oriented, so would be good practice at learning a language that works quite differently, if languages are of interest.

I don't know much about Russian or Mandarin, but a whole different alphabet, and a whole different way of making sentences out of pictograms, sound more of a challenge, however useful they might be. So not easy, but again it depdns if he is keen on the whole area of languages.

So this is a second language? Does he intend to go down the languages route because otherwise this is taking up an option.
He is already doing a romance language (French) so would it widen his horizons to do a Germanic (German or Russian)?

I did French, German and Latin from the very first year of secondary school. Did GCSE for all 3 of them then French at A-level, not pursuing German because I found it to be a much harder language. It has 3 genders and I found the grammar just not as easy to get correct. I would think trying to learn a gCSE in it in just 2 years without having done any in yrs 7-9 would actually be quite hard.

During A-levels I did Spanish GCSE as an "extra" without ever havig studied it further down the school and found it really quick to pick up. Much more similar to French than German and it just came much more naturally. I got an "A" grade no problem.

I have never used my German since 1989, but have used both French and Spanish fairly regularly on family holidays. I enjoyed my Latin and got an A at GCSE but again, I had studied it from yr 7 so already had 3 years of lessons under my belt before even starting the GCSE course. I wouldn't really advise going into a Latin GCSE "cold".

As others have said Mandarin and Russian are completely different alphabets. It would take a LOT of extra study to get to the standard required for a high grade at GCSE I think.

For me, I would have no doubts about advising Spanish. It will be easier to pick up from cold than any of the others, it is spoken in many countries, he can use it on holiday if Med holidays are your/his thing. And he's more likely to get a higher grade than any of the others. If I were him, I would only do the others as an extra "enrichment" interest alongside A-levels.

Is he good at languages? Does he enjoy them? I would think that Spanish would be the easiest and potentially the most useful of those you list. German can be be a bit frustrating, not because it is particularly difficult, but because it really is true that most Germans can speak English - so when you want to practice your German, they always switch into English. It is however the most common first language in Europe and, with French and English, one of the three vehicular languages the EU.
Russian is more difficult for English speakers, - though the alphabet is easily mastered - but nowhere near as difficult as Mandarin. But it is a great springboard for other Slavic languages if he sees himself as a linguist. Mandarin is really hard because of the tones which become more difficult to hear as you get older. I am a bit sceptical about Mandarin teaching in most English schools. Given that we find it difficult to teach the easier European languages - where exchanges and visits are easy to organise - I am not that optimistic about the levels of Mandarin that can be delivered to those starting at 13 or 14 with no family background/previous exposure. Would be interested to see what percentages of high achievers at GCSE/A level have really started from scratch.

Not sure that possessing a GCSE in a particular language,means that you are fluent.
More likely you will understand enough to order a meal in a restaurant.
GCSE,s are fine,but very basic.

I would go for Spanish.

NO, GSCSEs do not make you fluent. You need to live in the country for about a year for that to happen.

Hi **UptheRhine

I can't say DS will ever be a linguist, but has picked up French easily enough.

And I think the DCs that get successful A/A* grades in Mandarin are Chinese. Someone in DS class asked the question.

Based on the replies above, I agree with Spanish as more widely spoken in more countries and will feedback to DS.

Also depends on how long he studies it before he sits the GCSE. I would be very unhappy if DC took up, from scratch, a language in Year 10 with a view to doing the GCSE in two years.

Also just found this from the British Council Website:

November 2013

The Languages for the Future report identifies Spanish, Arabic, French, Mandarin Chinese, German, Portuguese, Italian, Russian, Turkish and Japanese as the languages most vital to the UK over the next 20 years. They were chosen based on economic, geopolitical, cultural and educational factors including the needs of UK businesses, the UK’s overseas trade targets, diplomatic and security priorities, and prevalence on the internet.

Interesting. Based on that alone rather than what is easiest, I would definitely advise Spanish, yes. I think he would be quite capable of getting a good grade in that in 2 years if he has shown a flair for French.

To be honest, I wouldn't bother unless he wants to be a linguist. GCSE died t get anywhere near really teaching a language properly.

Ffs doesn't

Spanish. It's similar to French and quite easy, so he could actually start to get somewhere with it, and might take it further later. Also widespread.

Yes, Leeds, the main problem would be if they didn't "take" to it and it took them until Xmas to realise they would struggle. That could well happen with something like Mandarin or Russian. It might be then too late to swap.

Spanish is much less of a gamble in that way.

To some extent, it depends what else he's interested in. My DD is set on being an engineer; DH (who is an industrial chemist who works with various European companies, as well as in China, Japan and US) reckoned that German would be by far the most relevant language for her.

Anna, has he considered long-term career plans? As others have said, a second language is not essential at GCSE unless he wants to take it to A-level. Doesn't sound like the school is that into their languages really if he hasn't had any exposure to any others apart from by now.

The British Council did a useful report on which languages were most useful for various purposes. It is available at:

www.britishcouncil.org/sites/britishcouncil.uk2/files/languages-for-the-future-report.pdf

You can see that depending on whether you want to prioritise business use, access to literature, or speaking to the most number of people on the planet, you get different priorities. Being able to speak to the most people is obviously Chinese then Spanish. Top language based on UK export markets is German. They do a composite score including several other factors which suggests an ordering of Spanish, Arabic, French, Mandarin, German,....

This report rather influenced our choice of secondary school.While Arabic is sadly rarely taught, we made sure DS would have access to the other four in that list.

Thanks all for the responses and apologies for the lack of responses to your questions above, as it's not easy to reply using my phone.

I'll have a read through the British Council report roguedad.

DS started French in year 7 and will be in Year 9 when he starts the other modern language to get a feel of the language and would have the option to drop it in year 10 as a GCSE. It will be a second modern language, as his school encourage for you to take a second language.

I'd agree with others and recommend Spanish.

DS is doing Spanish and Mandarin. Spanish because it is more widely spoken than French, and Mandarin because it is less widely offered and would stand out more.

Only those that were very good at languages in the first year were allowed to do Mandarin and it does seem very hard - including for us when we need to test him on something! He started doing Mandarin in Year 8 though, so will have been studying it for 4 years not 2 when he does GCSE. I'd worry about your DS trying to fit the learning in to 2 years.

Not sure what the situation is like now, but when I was at Leeds Uni (many years ago!!) I had several friends on the Chinese course. None had studied Chinese previously but had done very well at A level in other languages. So even if your DS does French and Spanish it doesn't mean he couldn't choose Chinese or Russian etc at a later date.

If he's bright, mandarin will be a critical language in the next few decades. Then Spanish, also very widely spoken and e second most common language in the world.

I would say Spanish. More widely spoken worldwide. Mandarin is hard to learn and though he may be quick to pick up the alphabet the nuances of pronunciation are known to be devilish.

Spanish. I remember everyone saying that Mandarin was the up-and-coming language to learn when I was at school.... 30 years ago.

Now I'd love to learn Mandarin, but that's because I love learning languages and like a challenge and would do it for fun, not as a qualification. GCSE doesn't get you to a fluent level in French, German etc. In Mandarin it must be hard to get beyond the basics. I wonder how many British people who do Mandarin at school ever become fluent enough to use it, or indeed ever travel to China.