Should we care that 50% of state schools didn't produce any medicine applicants in 3 years?

[legallady]

Well if no one from those schools wanted to study medicine then maybe not but if they are not achieving the grades to be able to apply or are not being given the correct advice then maybe we should.

Certainly it seems wrong that half of applicants in that time frame came from independent and grammar schools. It suggests that our qualified doctors a few years down the line will come from a very narrow demographic - similar to our lawyers and politicians - and that can't be good for our society.

What (if anything) is going wrong?

Agent
In much of the country there are many, many applicants for such care assistant jobs, from people who will not piss off when term starts.

I dropped DD off at a party tonight where the nearest public transport route is 5 miles along unlit country lanes : a tad tricky for kids wanting to get anywhere independently
and that is Hampshire

If your parents are farm labourers its chuffing difficult to get to any job, let alone a short term experience one

Play with this postcode picked at random BS27 3SD : get yourself to the hospital by public tranpsort for work experience

?? What has the public transport system in London got to do with students from deprived areas outside of London?!

Agent
if you had the foggiest what you were talking about you would know that it is not possible to get CRB'd

I gave a postcode : find the location within £15 per week of there.

what like the clanger on CRB ?????????

or rural unemployment?

or median wages?

Quite a few 16-year olds do have siblings to collect from school, make meals for and look after until parents come home. Still, they're not the sort likely to be given the time to get their schoolwork and revision done to the level required to get top grades, let alone find further unpaid work to do outside the home. One way or the other, people who have got even close to the grades required for medical school are going to have had a lot of support, even if not financial, or at least, not had too heavy a burden of family responsibility put on their shoulders.

I just don't understand the obsession with voluntary work
Simple
barriers to entry
the classic way that professions maintain their elitism

and in the case that the OP implied
remembering that the premise of the thread is in fact false, but the gist is right

In the stats I linked above, private school kids are four times as likely to get into medical school as they should by raw numbers but allowing for selection its only about double
and the non exam factors are the barrier to entry

same as media and fashion and law and politics jobs have all become the preserve of those who can afford unpaid internships

My dd is at medical school she went to a London comprehensive. And worked in a fast food out let and her gap year work experience was as a health care assistant in an old peoples home for which she earned minimum wage for a twelve hour day.the med schools loved her. But she did get good careers advice. And mumsnet and tsr were use full. She also swotted for the ukc at from a book and an online course for about £40' so not a huge outlay.

Agent
CRB was abolished nearly three years ago.
I'm rather shocked that somebody in the medical sphere, interested in the UK system, did not know that

TalkinPeace - I really don't think it is compulsory to know it is now called the Disclosure and Barring Service. If you've been working in the same place for years, you will have had your check done by the Criminal Records Bureau.

BS27 3SD : get yourself to the hospital by public tranpsort for work experience

There is a care home for the elderly at BS27 3TN. Near enough for you?

I don't understand your obsession with hospital experience. I think that sometimes it can actually count against you. Chances are that hospital work has been obtained through parents' contacts. Chances are that unglamorous care work has been organised by the applicant themselves, therefore shows more commitment.

senua
personally I CBA, as neither of my kids ever want to go into that sphere

and I find the faith in the detailed reading skills of admission tutors to be sweet, but out of kilter with the data

ANY degree that requires pre commencement experience is by definition discriminatory
so how about the Universities just STOP using it

and how about the employers stop using unpaid interns and go back to paying for holiday jobs as they did until 15 years ago?

A couple of things to spring to mind about this 'fact'
firstly I accept that some schools don't always encourage their students as much as they could
secondly how realistic is it that someone from an academy specialising in modern languages is likely to want to study medicine ?
thirdly my DN from her inner city comp is studying medicine - with no pre-experience; and of her peers there are a couple of biochemists, mathematicians and a vet
fourth - I know a couple of local private schools who this year didn't have any medics
as you can see I am not a mathematician.............

The obsession with voluntary work on this thread is because talkin says so!

Knowing the square route of fuck all about university admissions for medical school, apparently she gets to tell us all where the real problems lie as 'fact'.

And she'll be rude to anyone questioning her .

The reality is that work experience in hospitals isn't the main barrier to widening access in medicine. Just as it isn't in law, finance...

Though I'm not saying internships etc are not a scourge in other industries ; they are.

And the unofficial requirement for MAs in many areas is also problematic as there is little funding for post graduate study.

Dpotter I think most med schools recognise there is an issue here and would wish to widen participation.

Presently, they have a glut of applicants from independent and grammar schools. They would like to see more coming from the comprehensive sector.

The difficulty lies, as you've identified in patchy provision. One school can have an excellent history of ensuring their pupils make good choices and get good grades whilst encouraging them to the most competitive courses, where other schools have very poor records of some or all those things.

Which type of school a kid ends up in, is a bit of a lottery.

There are things I care about an awful lot more. Like, for example, the fact that medicine as seen as the holy grail for the 'brainy' at the expense of all other subjects. There are degrees which are far more weighted against students from challenging backgrounds (or just ordinary non wealthy ones) but nobody seems to care. There are school subjects which are becoming real Cinderella subjects - but they aren't science so apparently nobody cares. Society neither wants nor needs every single bright kid to be a doctor - but you wouldn't think it, the way some parents, schools, the media and to a certain extent even the government carry on.

My understanding is that the biggest issue in medical training is the shortage of university places meaning that, as a country, the UK has to import a lot of doctors who may be much less well trained than our own.

Or put another way, significant numbers of UK students now study abroad. Given there are no student loans this option really is limited to the better off.

rabbit I agree.

I get very pessimistic about the future of the arts for example. Every time I meet my publishers/agent/ pr/ production co etc there is some intern sitting there smiling.