Yr8- worth changing to private?

[TheDogsMissingBollock]

Currently in outstanding state, v happy there but her results not great, no support for her moderate SN and she is not really trying/being pushed. She's had a lot of change and ideally we wouldn't be looking to move her.
However, she's a real challenge and clashes esp with me on the sch run which i have to drive (out of catchment, no public transport there). She has got quite aggressive, is rude, challenges every single one of my instructions. Every day, all the time. Dd2 gets v v upset with "all the shouting". We're all exhausted from the daily battles. Dh thinks it's my mothering style... Dd1 often fails to do hmk or does very last minute on scrappy bits of paper and refuses to do any sport/extracurricular stuff. We have withdrawn privileges (phone, technology) when her behaviour's been particularly bad.

Am wondering about moving dd1 to a local private sch with a rep for being good with moderate learning difficulty, small class sizes, a longer school day which includes getting hmk and sport done and a school bus (which would transform my life and enable me to work again).
We can afford it, just wondering whether yet more change would outweigh any advantages.

But if you want to be able to work it's not unreasonable to consider changes that would make that possible ...

Yes i know but potentially all cd change- our marriage/house location/ my ability to work. And we're already all changed out. But something's got to give.

Oh, dear. It sounds as though there's a lot that's not quite right for you atm, TheDogsMissingBollock. If there's the potential for a lot of upheaval, anyway, I'm not sure moving your dd from a nurturing school to an unknown school which might or might not be good for her is a great idea, as it sounds like the problems are too deep rooted to be cured by an easier school run and more extra curricular activities for your dd, particularly if you move her against her wishes. Worth looking into and trying to persuade her to look round the school, maybe, but not worth pinning all your hopes of increasing your happiness, your dd's attitude and the stability of your marriage on.

Is your dh based in the UK permanently, now, or could he be asked to head off overseas again (or decide he wants to do that?...)? What are his feelings about you going back to work/not going back to work/moving somewhere that suits the rest of his family better but not necessarily him? How does he feel about paying school fees? Is he as unhappy as you with your family life, or too wrapped up in his work to think about it? It seems to me there is a danger of your dd turning into the scapegoat for all your problems if you think moving her to a different school will solve anything and then it turns out it doesn't help with anything at all...

He's much less bothered about things than i am, certainly. And v wrapped up in work and not overly keen on fees either. But no ethical stance against private or anything. Yes indeed it's certainly not dd's fault all of this. But if i could work more freely, i'd have a life, breathing space, independence. Things i need. No plans to go overseas again as GCSEs not so far off.

Think I might be tempted to move house... I'm not sure an expensive mortgage and school fees are a recipe for an improved marriage! Have you looked round this private school yourself, yet? And spoken to any parents with children there?

Dog I am facing a similar dilemma with my 12 year old ex expat child the difference is she hates her present school but has only been there since September but I am at a loss what to do. Although we haven't got the temper and defiance she has started pulling out her eyelashes and is very emotional . Like you I worry about more change and wether we will be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. In my case I am going to try and make work what we have got at the moment but I may change my mind if things are still the same by Easter
What I would say is dont underestimate the fact she is happy at school at the moment you may find moving her will make things ten times worse

Actually OP - and as a counterweight to any anti-private school bias that might materialise on your thread I'm wondering if your elder DD might not rather relish a new challenge. Have you considered boarding school? It can be a great support for a child where there's intermittent family upheaval.

If you could return to work you would be in a stronger position both to drive family decisions and to withstand any further upheavals.

Setting that aside, presumably you're looking towards yr 9? This is the usual changeover year for many private schools (though girls often move at 11+.)

I think you would be wise to consider more than one possible school - particularly if fee paying.

I guess you have to think hard about how much changing your dd's school genuinely could resolve your problems if it goes well, and whether it could make them worse. That depends a lot on the real reasons for the rockiness of your marriage, which you have not really expressed. Also, do you have a job in mind? What did you do before you went overseas/had children? Was it well paid? Did you enjoy it? Is that what you want to go back to? Is it a big issue in your marriage that you have sacrificed your career? Or do you just want to get away from the nagging and arguing and the lack of a sense of fulfilment in your current role at the moment, with the possibility of getting a job just being one of the things you could do with the extra time? At the moment, you don't sound like you've got much flesh on the bones of your idea.

Could you not write lists of all the potential advantages of such a change for each of yourself, your dh and your dds, and likewise the disadvantages for each of you? Sometimes putting it in black and white does help, rather than mulling it round inside your head, where thoughts and feelings can get confusing. And don't forget that what makes you happier might well make your family happier, too, in the long run. It doesn't sound as though, in recent years, you have done much that will make you feel happier.

In your position I would do the switch. But i would try very hard to bring DD on board because odds will be stacked against you otherwise.

To get her on board I would take her away for a couple of days at start of Christmas holidays to a spa or something and try to get her to chill out and talk about her future, because quite frankly she's steering it now, no matter what parental decisions you make. Get her to think ahead and then work backwards on how she is going to get there. Whether she is ambitious in terms of wealth, academia, music or drama, you can get all roads to lead backwards to the private school option. She also needs to think you are doing this for her and not to address your frustrations and issues with her.

I would also consider giving her the choice of boarding (perhaps at different school).

FWIW, one of my DC is on spectrum with PDA and is a right little diva most of the time. She has flourished in the independent environment where there are endless rules and structure and very, very long school days to keep her occupied. All of this (and small class sizes) have been a real plus in terms of her dealing with her challenges. On the other hand, another DC has dyslexia and my experience there has been more mixed to be honest and we are slightly wary of the increasing length of school days as the curriculum gets more complicated. So the type of SEN also needs to be taken into account because there is more at play to think about than simply the quality of the SENCO provision.

Yes am tempted more that way. If only can get her on board. Feels risky but instinctively right. Her ambitions are unclear- she isnt driven at all currently but has been passionate about animals/wildlife/history/martial arts. Now quite keen on music but not currently practising any instrument.

I agree with Thereshallbeaspirin - try to make it sound like it would be a fantastic thing for HER. I think if she got keen on the idea, it would be a good idea for everyone.

Thereshall- feel for you with your "right little diva" Had to google PDA, think dd shares some of those characteristics... Don't think boarding an option. Despite everything, she is a real homebody, has a much treasured pet etc.

You're right, Rabbit. How to make it her idea?? Any tips? They have some great facilities - "sounds too posh". And small classes and so relatively small compared to her comp - "hate small schools"

Zero- thanks for yr 9 switchover pointer (hadn't appreciated that)

Tweener- sorry to hear about yr dd's distress. Expat life can be tough on kids! Poor her. Is she getting good support at school?

Yr 9 is the usual changeover for traditional boys' public schools - it varies with co-ed and girls's schools.

If ever I omit to preview I notice a glaring mistake as I press "post"...

Well, you know your dd best, TheDogsMissingBollock. I would go and look around the school yourself before you take her along, ask lots of questions and then think about how you could advertise it to her! Hopefully, in any event, it will be able to advertise itself: schools normally get a current pupil to help show you round. Hopefully they won't come across as posh, but will seem reassuringly normal! Thirteen is a difficult age for enthusiasm, though - as I say, it was the worst year of my school life. I didn't feel like anything: no longer quite a child, not really feeling like a proper teenager, not sure how I was supposed to think or feel any more, just bleurgh... It's not really an age when you want to thrust yourself into the spotlight. That doesn't mean you won't be able to cultivate a spark of interest, though, just that her initial stance of not wanting to know is perfectly normal for her age!

the school being "outstanding" is a red herring. Ofsted ratings does not mean a school suits a child.

Do YOU think, deep down, the school is good enough? Do you have faith in her tutor, the teachers, the HT? The school ethos?

Why does your DD like the school? is she engaged in any of the subjects? excited about anything she learns? Ever tell you something extraordinary she learned at school (and occasional: "did you know! moment")

Is she placed in the right sets for her ability?

basically, is it the right school? It si normal for state secondaries to not offer too much to children with mild SEN (i.e. the none-statemented ones), especially if their results are within what's normal (my mildly dyslexic son gets no support, as he is middle set, i.e. within average, which I guess is fair enough)

Hi yes, i do have complete faith in its ability for vast majority of kids. Great HT, motivated & high calibre teachers. My issue is she's atypical not only moderate SN but an ex-expat plus out of catchment. It's for these reasons that i am now questioning our choice. And no we're NOT going to switch to the catchment comp. over my dead body

Thedogs - I feel your pain.

We have moved DC (both with some form of SN) out of state into private one in yr 8, one in yr 9 but in my case in now involves me driving them to school when the used to walk.

We also ended up moving but still a drive from school but feel the weight of having teenagers who do not have local friends, which is not idea at all.

They are very happy in school and being much smaller in size than their previous school they seem to fit in really well, but it is a school known for having quirky children and mixed ability so it's not your standard private school.

I must say I hate the school run and the fact I've tied myself into a school day, it's really limited what I can do so I can understand why you would want to get rid of it.

I have found it hard to get to know other parents as lots of them got to know each other at the primary stage. So I don't feel very connected to the school.

Sounds like she needs more independence TBH. If you try to organise her life too much at this age she will rebel big time. If she's doing ok at school then that's fine. She is ultimately responsible for the effort she puts in. Sometimes it's better to back off, let them experience failure/ not doing so well, to have a bit of a fright and then to pull their own socks up.
Re the school run, just don't engage with petty arguments- it's just not worth it. Did you know that teenager's brains are programmed to view neutral statements as aggressive? It's all part of them gearing up to become independent.
Re the extracurricular stuff, she definitely won't do things that you suggest. Independence strikes again.I would back off and see what interests her.
To give you a couple of examples to help independence, I got fed up with DS (12) moaning about boring food. We let him do the weekly shop and menu plan, no compromises. If the cash ran out it was toast for the rest of the week. He took it really seriously and put enough by for a chippy at the end of the week.
He's a bit older now (14) and I got fed up with the arguments about fancy clothes. I set a monthly clothing allowance ( worked out by a mixture of cheap, midrange and the odd expensive piece) which was less than half what he was expecting, but I pointed out that when he is a student things will be really tight. He is doing really well with it and I no longer have any arguments about clothes .

Itscold- feel for you, hard being newbies sometimes. Plus doing sch run at secondary is a pain in the arse glad yours are settling at least. Sounds like right decision though hard for you.
Maybe ultimately i am too selfish to be doing this day in day out, year after year for a cantankerous teen. I want some of my life back- my independence and yes, hers as Piggy said. Walking from home to a bus-stop would be much more independence for her.

So i guess what I'm trying to say is i want to give dd more independence, but within strict parameters. Am hoping a longer sch day which encompasses a range of compulsory extracurricular stuff (from which she can choose) could be job done and take the heat off my relationship with her. Is that naive? Plus sch bus = less nagging mum/upsetting sister time... Maybe!