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Original poster

The Politics of Grammar Schools

705 replies

GiftedPhoenix · 30/11/2014 10:08

I thought some mumsnet readers would be interested in my latest post, which is about grammar schools, especially their record in admitting high-attaining children from disadvantaged backgrounds.

giftedphoenix.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/the-politics-of-selection-grammar-schools-and-disadvantage/

The selection issue has been bubbling away in the media and this looks set to continue next week, as the Conservatives come under increased pressure from within their own party to include a commitment to new grammar schools in the Tory Election manifesto.

I wanted to explore what progress our remaining 163 grammar schools are making towards 'fair access', so providing a benchmark against which to judge political claims that they might be engines of social mobility. I'm not concerned with research on their historical record in this respect, but with evidence of recent reform.

OP posts:
AmberTheCat · 08/12/2014 22:40

And if prepping your kids for grammar school takes so much parental effort and involvement that you can't be a school governor at the same time, how on earth can you argue that it's a fair and meritocratic system?!

smokepole · 08/12/2014 22:42

Am I right in thinking the supposed reading age for " Peter and Jane" books is 3- 5 Years old in which case expecting 11 year old's to read them is stupid. .
It would of been better if you had got the pupils who were struggling to read, to bring in a Football magazine or an article about hobby or interest they have.

smokepole · 08/12/2014 22:46

I have just noticed I don't know how to spell "have" so will start reading Peter and Jane books tomorrow .

portico · 08/12/2014 22:57

Amber. Hak

The poor performing readers did not know many words beyond the normal five to six letters. The idea was to build word recognition as a precursor to fluid word decoding. Comprehension came a little later in the journey.

Prepping my kids takes a lot of time in finding good resources. Dc1 and dc2 have had mostly different resources, in order to meet their different learning styles and abilitiltes. Surely, my dc are my priority. It is meritocratic system, because come the exam my children will be ready to face the competition for a finite number of places.

In between talking to you lot on here, I am actively engaged in online education forums in other countries, too. That is where I pick up good practices and also reciprocate them back.

EvilTwins · 08/12/2014 23:00

Portico I am dismayed that you continue to believe Peter & Jane was in any way appropriate. I'm almost beginning to think that you're making it all up.

That and the fact that your own 9 yr old was doing extra school work beyond 9pm.

FFS.

portico · 08/12/2014 23:13

Evil

I have nothing to lie about.

Ps, look at the Peter and Jane books at books 9 to 12. They are markedly harder. They were a catalyst in inculcating an interest in reading. That's all.

My dc does not do school work that late. We get that out of the way ca 4pm. About ten minutes later we start on the 11+ work. Works off an on until 930pm with a fair spread of breaks.

Hakluyt · 08/12/2014 23:35

I was sure you were just taking the piss, portico- always nice to have things confirmed.

anothermakesthree · 08/12/2014 23:44

Can I just clarify, is your DC doing approx 5 hours work each night as prep for their 11+ later on in 2015?

portico · 08/12/2014 23:48

No more like 2 to 3 hours, but sometimes can be about 30 mins more. Spends about 45 mins in the morning on learning an 11+ word list, as well as attempting freerice.

anothermakesthree · 08/12/2014 23:52

Do you think that that amount of prep is recommended by the super selective you have chosen to sit for?

portico · 08/12/2014 23:58

It is not recommended. But it is done by virtually all parents whose dc will sit the exams.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria · 09/12/2014 00:04

Portico, I promise you, if your Y4 child needs to work till 9:30 every night to stand a chance of passing the 11+ there is something very very wrong indeed. The only reason 'working' that late might be acceptable would be if in fact the child was reading a fiction book, in bed, and couldn't bear to put it down. I'm also bemused at your suggestion that you have been scouring round for 'resources'. Unless you mean 'buying fiction books on Amazon'.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria · 09/12/2014 00:09

And 45 minutes every morning too?!?!?! This is madness. It must be a pisstake. I genuinely believe that if any of my kids had 45 mins spare in the morning before setting out for school the world would in fact have ended. Perhaps not all families are as bed loving as we are (in the mornings. We are all a bit allergic to our beds in the evenings) but even so - 45 minutes learning a 'word list' when you could be (a) sleeping or (b) reading a book (or (c) 'helping' with the crossword for the more annoying child) really is lunacy.

sugar21 · 09/12/2014 00:11

Anyone stop to think what the children want

Hakluyt · 09/12/2014 00:13

Rabbit- I wouldn't engage if I were you. Portico is either a piss taker,or one of those bonkers mothers on Child Genius. Or starting an ill judged marketing campaign for a new range of 11+ preparation materials. Whichever she is,she is also unhinged.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria · 09/12/2014 00:14

Hak - you're right. Especially since I have to get up at 5:15. :(

Notsuretoday · 09/12/2014 06:09

I really don't want anyone to think that all parents with children at superselectives are that obsessed. My dd's are at one of the highest ranked ss in the country. For preparation they did one hour per week at a tutor for 20 weeks, and 10 mins a day at home. That's it. So not much blood sweat and tears nor cost were involved. And in that they are certainly not unusual amongst their classmates.

TheWordFactory · 09/12/2014 07:52

portico your 11 plus regime is absurd!

Trust me, I have DC who have passed several selective exams for several schools between them and didn't do anything close to that sort of prep.

RabbitOfNegativeEuphoria · 09/12/2014 08:32

Notsure actually your regime sounds excessive too, to be honest. My DD's are also at one of the highest ranked SSs in the country. If they'd been asked/expected to do what you describe they wouldn't be at the SS because there'd have been a palace revolution. Grin

TalkinPeace · 09/12/2014 08:34

Portico
If your kids cannot sail through the 11+ without thousands of hours of hothousing

how do you think they will cope at University when you are not there to read "Our Island Story" to them Hmm

OK it was a LONG time ago, but I do not remember doing any extra work before sitting the clutch of entrance exams I had at the end of primary - my Mum's assumption was that if I got in, I got in and if not we went on down the list. (SPGS, WA, G&L, FH were the top of the list BTW)

TheWordFactory · 09/12/2014 08:45

Well quite talkin
Dd say for a selective independent, a grammar and a mixed ability independent.

So it wouldn't have mattered if she'd failed the first two.

As it was she wanted to go to the mixed ability school anyway Blush. Should have listened to her from the off!

Bonsoir · 09/12/2014 08:52

I agree with PP: hothousing your DC for 11+ is setting them up for failure further down the line. There is everything to be said for familiarising DC with the format of the examinations they are going to take, so that they don't lose valuable time trying to work out what is being asked of them. And familiarisation can take quite a bit of time if there are several exams to be taken. There is everything to be said for filling in gaps so that your are sure your DC have covered the exam syllabus. But you cannot spend hours every night "prepping" DC by learning vocabulary. For vocabulary to be properly embedded it has to be learned in situ.

Notsuretoday · 09/12/2014 08:57

How much did you do Rabbit?

Hakluyt · 09/12/2014 08:57

I loved Our Island Story as a child. I can still remember some of the colour plates vividly. There was a fab one of Boudicca. Very bloodthirsty.

I daren't read it again now- I am sure it's ghastly and would spoil the lovely memories.