Criticism Over Helping DS With Homework...Views Please

[GirlInASwirl]

Parent's evening is coming up and I have to have an uncomfortable conversation with my DS's (Y7) Design Tech. teacher (new to me). Wondering the best way to go about it...

My DS is very bright and is easily clear of academic targets set in all other subjects. I am teacher-qualified and support when needed with homework (as I believe DS has problems with his working memory, concentration, processing of information and organizing longer tasks). I try to minimise my input where I can see he is 'on a roll'.

His tech. grade was two sub-levels below the Y7 minimum target. Assessment was based on a 'Sock Monkey' project over a number of weeks. During this time he came home with very little work to show after each session, little idea of what he had to do/purpose, poor quality samples and so forth. He struggled to talk about what he had learnt in class. I was asking questions about how much attention he was getting and if others were as far behind. There was no feedback from the teacher saying he was struggling.

Half term came and the kids were tasked with finishing their monkeys and also a booklet about the design process. He had so much work to do, but got on with it solidly for the whole week. I also gave him mini inputs along the way; but nothing extraordinary.

Because there was some input from me - his finished product was better than most of his class mates. The teacher sent home a verbal message (via DS - not directly to me) 'Thank you for helping - but your son has to do projects himself'. I sent in a note explaining exactly what I had done and what he had. I would estimate 6-7 eighths was him.

I anticipated that the finished product would have got a level 6. Instead; it got a 4b. I am not sure whether the teacher has marked him down for having support.

This was then followed up by the same teacher going into another class and saying that there was no need for most of the class to see her on parent's evening if they got o.k. marks but (J....) and (my son's name) would have to make an appointment for underachieving'. My son was humiliated.

So what would you say at Parent's evening if this was your DC?

So they gave him 5A for an end of year 7 target for DT?

Hi Pelican - the school has a Moodle website with various resources on. The Sock Monkey area of DT only has a title there so not much use. I asked him to approach his teacher for more direction. In hindsight he could also have e-mailed her so that it was in writing too. Hadn't thought of the progression thing from her point of view - will mull over that one.

Yes Hak - 5A for an end of yr7 target. Does that sound overly high to you?

It seems pretty high to me!

I'm still not quite sure why you're worrying about it...

Y7 DD's recent data only has levels for maths and English, presumably because they don't feel they can give us anything that reliable for the other subjects yet. Or they're just a bit lazy. You decide.

Her English levels are clearly broken (teacher is a new, callow youth and probably rated her on hands-up).

I think we need to stop pretending these secondary sub-levels are accurate and meaningful, especially at this point in Y7.

I'm starting to let go of the worry a bit now. I know I was getting wound up and needed to chat on here to get another perspective. The DT thing was just a blot on an otherwise fab report - of which he has already been congratulated (no mention of blot to him).

Education is super-important for me and I want DS to have the best chances academically that he can muster for his own security and future opportunities. He worked his ass off for his year 6 SATS and is capable of keeping up the momentum in most subjects. My degrees are in the arts and I was hoping that we could share that together (we'll see).

Lol Pique - hmm. DSs school have taken his year 6 SAT scores and added baseline assessments and CAT test scores. So I think there is an element of reliability.

Is there a problem in class maybe? Listening skills? Chatting?

Education is important to me too. I don't think you should worry though. Yes get to the bottom of things as it may uncover an issue but also remember that this isn't his A level or GCSE mark. He's only 11. I must also add that if it was his actual GCSE work, it would create a big problem marking wise.

Thanks Pelican

"the arts" doesn't mean art and tech, it means English and drama.

4b is fine for 1st term in year 7.

This is a serious "pick your battles" situation. Does your DC want to make a career out of something he needs Tech for? No? Well then, pat him on the back, tell him he'll just have to do his best for the next 2 or 3 years till he can give it up, no one's good at everything etc.

See the teacher. Apologise for helping. Say you helped because you could see he is underachieving and you were not sure if he was getting any help at school as he finds it really hard. But now you know not to and won't do it again.

But don't go complaining to the head because if something serious happens like bullying and you have to go in all guns blazing they'll roll their eyes and say "Oh it's HER again."

My DC also has good levels, apart from in music , art , drama and DT. He is yr 7 and was actually scored 2a for music! He is fairly hopeless at anything practical and completely tone deaf. His report though said he tried in the subjects, and he hasn't been humiliated by the teachers. I'd don't help him, he does get DT and art homework, though no music or drama so far, and I don't help. Like an earlier poster I treat his hopeless marks as a bit of a joke. He is doing cookery for DT at the moment and is so bad I am actually going to give him an intensive course in how to peel veg and basic cooking over the holidays, as this is a skill I want him to develop, he needs to be able to cook healthy food! But I wouldn't help with homework. If I were you I'd repeat your OP to the teacher at parents evening but I wouldn't take it farther than that, he doesn't need to do DT for GCSEs after all.

It does seem a bit unlikely that he was a mile behind everyone else at the design stage, and with a small amount of help over a period of a week he was suddenly ahead of them all. I would imagine the mark is a combination of the finished product (a fairly high mark) and the design stages (very low marks).

Though I'm bemused by how you "design" a sock monkey. Take sock, follow instructions.

The public message was very rude - the teacher should have written to you to tell you she needed to speak to you.

I must admit I don't quite get the problem with homework help, if (as seems here) it doesn't actually involve doing the work for them, but just giving appropriate guidance such as a teacher might provide. My dad went through pretty much every essay I wrote in later secondary school with a red pen. Result: I got shit hot at both writing and structuring arguments. No way would a teacher in a class of 25 kids have had time to give me that level of input. I now have three Oxbridge degrees, and I don't need my dad and his red pen any more . My PhD supervisor certainly used a red pen on my thesis though, and nobody thought of that as cheating!

Sorry op, just musing! My kids are still in early primary, I'm clearly going to find secondary school quite traumatic! But fwiw I don't see that you did much wrong, and I think the teacher was out of line humiliating yr ds. On the other hand, he's only 11, and its just DT, so I don't think you need worry!

Strange thread about a sock monkey!

Ds1 IS dyspraxic and all his D & T projects were very basic. He was never told off for bad work because they could see he really couldn't understand the instructions unless someone stood next to him and explained every step.

He has given up D & T now (Year 10), thank goodness. He did enjoy the projects though. We still have the working hacksaw handle and the sculpture of a shark made of wood. I'm glad he had the chance to try D & T because he would never have attempted any of that in RL.

I do remember getting very upset when he was criticized in Year 7 for not trying with his presentation or immature drawing (this was in Art). But he actually was quite good at stuff which was bigger and bolder like papier mache and collage. So you might find your son does shine when things are less fiddly.

Children have different skills, so it is likely levels will vary across subjects, surely the teacher has also used a judgment on what he has seen to assess levels and the skills displayed in class. There is likely to children underachieving in odd subjects and doesn't sometimes it help to struggle rather than finding everything easy

It's rare to be good at everything

It's possible that the teacher has identified your son has difficulties with practical subjects and wants to discuss this with you re possible assessment for dyspraxia. Or that your DS is underachieving because he isn't working well in lessons in which case you need to discuss his behaviour in subjects he doesn't enjoy/do well in.

However, it's also possible that the teacher is an arse.

If he wants to berate you for helping with homework, you can say that it wouldn't be needed if teacher input hadn't been so poor.

If he wants to say your son is underachieving at 2 sublevels below the y7 minimum, you can point out that it's only the start of the year and ask what the teacher will be doing to ensure he meets his target? Or say that sublevels are bollocks (which they genuinely are) and you don't think yearly targets are accurate.

Or if teacher is particularly arsey, just say "well, it's only DT, it's hardly a priority for academic DS"

But do point out that you don't appreciate your DS being publicly singled out for underachievement.

I think it is unrealistic to expect a child to be good at everything. Our school also gives grades for how well the child has worked in class. My DS is rubbish at all DT subjects but gets good marks for effort, that matters more to me than how he achieves in a subject he has no aptitude for.

Agree that your poor ds cannot be great at every single subject.

You say that education is "super important" to you - but driving your ds to achieve well at everything is guaranteed to make him feel inadequate. Those levels, sub-levels etc - who cares? As long as he is doing well at the subjects you know he is good at, or has the aptitude for, and is doing his best in everything else, that's what is important.

Working his socks off for Level 6 SATS? Why? The SATS are not used to judge the children.

And doing projects for dcs - what you are basically saying is, "Ds, your work is not good enough. My work is, however, so that is what we are going to send in." Not good for self esteem, and sometimes you have to be realistic and honest. Ds cannot draw for toffee. What would be the point of sending him in with something dh (who is great at art) had drawn, just to get the hallowed top level? Zero point.

"The SATS are not used to judge the children."

On which planet? DD's secondary only set maths in Y7 and they used KS2 SATs (marks) to do that.

A whole week to make a sock puppet?!
I know Dd has initiative but she's knocking out 3 Xmas stockings this evening, they seem pretty similar each to a sock puppet project Nervously hoping she doesn't knacker my sewing machine.

OP's son "got on with it solidly for a whole week", to create something which amounted to 75%+ the boy's own work, but still needed help from OP that even OP admits made it noticeably better than his peers', although it was still "only mini-inputs" that OP gave. Yet enough help that very clear to the teacher that OP had helped.

I'm very , but to respond to general principles: verbal advice, brainstorming & being a third hand is fine. Sounds like OP must have done a fair lot more than that, though. I don't understand why. Do you help with his other homework like this?

DS has the highest possible effort grade for DT...and is way behind his end KS3 target.

He'll give it up at the end of Y9, but he can cook, sew and handle both a saw and a soldering iron to a moderately useful level, can folow instructions to create something basic (endlessly useful in future life with flatpack furniture) and has developed much greater empathy with those who struggle in the subjects he finds easy (Maths, PE, MFL, History).

Result, in my book.

He isn't dyspraxic, btw - he has great gross motor skills, though not quite so good fine motor skills, and can e.g. play a quite fiddly instrument to a high level. He just isn't any good at DT, or Art. As long as he works hard, I don't care. If his EFFORT grade dropped, I'd be on his case like a shot. Achievement grade, if he's clearly giving it his all - nope.

Hi
I am dyspraxic too, was very academically able, sewing and food tech nearly killed me. The teacher took me outside and asked me if I was deliberately making my work poor for attention as she knew I was a bright girl! The thing is, I do look back and laugh BUT I suffered so much stress in my university years about my inability to organise myself and at 38 I still can't drive... Which is how I discovered I had dyspraxia. So yeah, no one has to be good at everything and design tech doesn't have to be a strength but if he's struggling hugely with these sorts of tasks, then it might be worth pursuing.

Teacher - While I'm sure you're right and your DS isn't dyspraxic, being able to play an instrument isn't a sign of not being dyspraxic. Just in case you are actually a teacher in a school and might need to know this in the future. :)

"Just in case you are actually a teacher in a school and might need to know this in the future. "

Uncalled for.