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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Swearing in school literature

43 replies

duover2000 · 30/10/2014 16:05

I am curious - my 12 year old year 8 has just read "The Curious Incident of the dog in the night-time" which has been set by his english teacher. She told them to ignore the swearing. I have just read it myself, found it a good read but was amazed that this book was provided as the f-word is used regularly and the c-word even makes an appearance. Has anyone else observed children being given books containing strong swear words? How would a teacher react should a child use these words in their own descriptive writing in the correct context? Have never experienced this with my 15 year old who is at a different school. Any insights? Thanks.

OP posts:

titchy · 30/10/2014 16:54

Should be fine if used in context - eg 'when narrator says he's 'fucking scared' it shows x, y and z and the use of swear words serves to emphasise that.'

Saying 'narrator is fucking scared of the dog.' not ok as the word 'fuck' does not serve any purpose.

Takver · 30/10/2014 17:10

Realistically, secondary school children are going to hear swearing - probably on a daily basis - so it wouldn't bother me if they were reading an excellent and age appropriate book that happened to contain swearing, IYSWIM.

Original poster

duover2000 · 31/10/2014 07:08

Thanks for the replies X

OP posts:

rabbitstew · 31/10/2014 08:18

Aww. Disappointed. I thought this was going to be a thread where a headteacher is quoted in the school prospectus as saying something like, "this school is fucking amazing!"

lljkk · 31/10/2014 08:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Agggghast · 31/10/2014 10:34

Well all I can say is wait until schools start teaching 'Pigeon English', a new GCSE text as approved by Gove, a replacement for To Kill a Mockingbird. I trialed it this term with my year 10's, they adored it, able pupils, I read it blushing. Even the woodpecker farts reduced them to hysterics and as for the playground game 'Suicide Bomber'.......

skylark2 · 31/10/2014 18:37

Curious Incident was on my son's recommended summer reading list in yr7.

I didn't think it was a big deal.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 31/10/2014 18:39

Mine both read that in primary: I didn't think it was a problem and it didn't prove to be one!

groovyolmutha · 31/10/2014 19:01

My DD is in year 11. Came across this thread as in despair about gcse prep. and browsing topics.

Grief I am horrified!

I haven't read any of the books mentioned and neither has my DD (although possibly in class). She is proud to say she has never read a book but that is another story! It seems for GCSE English lang. and lit you are not actually required to read a book anymore.

I digress. If she came home with a book containing swearing to the degree mentioned and masturbation references/discriptions, I would complain to the school.

It's the thin end of the wedge in my book. The other end of the wedge is what is/has been happening in Manchester with child abuse. There is a loss of boundaries and concepts of what is acceptable and what isn't and people just let it go and think it is ok if you ignore it.

DD is studying (more like learning snippets by rote than studying actually - they haven't even read the whole play) Macbeth and WWI poetry and some of that is pretty strong stuff for 14 yr old girls. She is not bothered of course.

Lottiedoubtie · 31/10/2014 19:07

She's not bothered? And yet you think it's the thin end of the wedge?

OP I agree with the majority here. Secondary school pupils can't be protected from the real world- education must educate them to live in society. So they need to be confronted with taboos, and challenging material in an appropriate way so that they develop understanding and resilliance.

DoolallyMarjorie · 31/10/2014 19:20

My DD is in Yr 9, and she refuses to read out the swear words when she's reading aloud in class. The teacher tells her she shouldn't miss words out, but she's really uncomfortable with it.

groovyolmutha · 31/10/2014 19:53

Lottiedoubtie's point about being confronted with taboos and challenging material 'in an appropriate way'. I agree with this in principle.

The key word here is appropriate. That sort of material is not age appropriate. This is arguable I know but I have knowledge of child development and psychology (and criminology) and I can tell you straight that giving children of under around (probably older and yes it is elastic) 13 years referring to sexual content is not age appropriate.

It is sexualising children at too young an age and that is all part of a bigger problem which at the other end of the continuum leads to adults thinking 12 year old girls in crop tops are asking to be sexually exploited.

DoolallyM. I hope you have complained to the school. I don't think it is right that children not of an age to be able to contextualise or understand should be asked to speak or read words that many people consider deeply offensive.

SconeRhymesWithGone · 31/10/2014 20:10

Curiouser and curiouser.

Did anyone see the thread a few days ago in which the OP, a teacher, was talking about being told off by an OFSTED inspector because of a swear word (inspector's term, as I recall) in a piece of yr. 7 student writing in which the student quoted another student; the assignment was to write about an embarrassing incident.

The word was "fart."

Lottiedoubtie · 31/10/2014 22:56

Year 8 are 12/13 though? And the book in question is about a teenager. Yes, I expect it could have waited til later in the year or even year 9 but it isn't THAT out of the way ifyswim.

Lottiedoubtie · 31/10/2014 22:57

Scone- I didn't see that thread but it only proves what we already know- some OFSTED inspectors are loons...

SconeRhymesWithGone · 31/10/2014 23:03

OFSTED Fart Thread

saintsandpoets · 31/10/2014 23:21

Agree with titchy.

Likewise if they were creative writing, and wanted to use it in dialogue, thats fine too.

Blu · 31/10/2014 23:39

Best avoid Shakespeare in schools: seething with sex, violence, swearing, bawdy innuendo and all manner of inappropriate goings on .

I honestly can't envisage the wedge that has young peoe reading and critiquing, in an educative setting, a brilliant book like Curious Incident at one end and mass rape of underage girls at the other. Nor a continuum between said reading experience amongst teens and sexually abusive adults with warped views about children.

MexicanSpringtime · 31/10/2014 23:47

I feel not totally qualified as I don't have any child close to twelve-years-old, but I remember when my dd was young she saw all kinds of videos in her friends' houses that were not age appropriate. We all hear swearing every time we go out in the street, so I'm not certain why swearing in a book is worse than swearing in a film or on the street.

FelixTitling · 31/10/2014 23:53

I've just been given a list of recommended reads for my yr6 dd. Curious Incident is on there, so this really shocks me.

I remember reading it, and can recall the story, but not the swearing etc. I just remembered that I had enjoyed it and so had commented to dd that she would like it. She said a few kids in her year had already read it including the TA's daughter!

The book list is a curriculum list given to me by her teacher. I'll find it tomorrow and confirm.

Dancingyogi · 01/11/2014 06:48

Dcs are in year 7 and they say that all kids swear at this age, scout camps were a bit of a shocker for them.
Really don't get the connection with swearing in books, crop tops, child abuse and mass rape. It's not unusual for dcs to be discussing sexual issues and language in the playground, is it better to keep these conversations in the playground and out of the classroom? Does that prevent child abuse and rape?

Yarp · 01/11/2014 06:58

My non reading son (then 13) loved this book, so that possibly colours my view

I don't think a bit of swearing or sex in literature is harmful. It would have to be immensely powerful to add anything to the real life exposre the average teen has to sex, sexual violence and swearing.

SanityClause · 01/11/2014 07:03

"Thin end of the wedge"? Bizarre!

Are you trying to say that these men abused children because they were warped by reading literature? Or is it that the children "allowed" themselves to be abused because they had read a book with some swear words in it, so didn't know right from wrong?

I think you need to elucidate this wedge. I really don't see how we get from reading books to raping children, so you'll need to educate me.

lljkk · 01/11/2014 08:26

Another thing about Curious incident is all the math; if you're doing that level of math or at least getting hints of it at school you can dig it, otherwise it's just complicated math to get bored by. Being older is a huge advantage in terms of actually being able to get depth & enjoyment out of the book.

Curious Incident is about a 17 yr old facing A-levels & the final hurdles into adulthood & is most appropriate to that age group. Was Not Written to be a primary school age children's book.

(Shakespeare is deathly dull & very hard to read without detailed footnotes and translations; those things alone make it well worth avoiding.)

Blu · 01/11/2014 09:04

Lljkk, we did Shakespeare in school from y7 and loved it. My DS is now having the same experience. DS read Curious Incident at 12 and couldn't put it gown: said he found it the most emotional book he had ever read. He and his friends were all begging to see the stage version, and were blown away by it.

I think I prefer my 13 year old's reading tastes to yours!

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