auditions for conservatoires

[jazzsyncopation]

anyone else doing this? Horrendous or what?.... total nightmare!

The only other joint Uni and Conservatoire degree we have come across is the Manchester and Royal Northern joint music course. think that gives two degrees, BMus and BA. Only have about 8 places, straight A students.

Only 8 places? That is a very tiny number.

Just had a quick check, cannot see anything about no. of places for joint course on either website, I remember being told by someone that applied a couple of years ago. Believe if unsuccessful, application automatically considered for the MusB at Manchester.

Why on earth would you say music isn't an academic degree RandomFriend?

When I was at uni (10 yrs or so ago), the joint courses in London were Kings and RAM and City and GSMD.

Moominmammacat I epressed myself badly. Music is - certainly at some universities - an academic degree.

I meant that for DD, who wants to be a performer, an academic degree in music is possibly a poor compromise between doing something specialised in performance and doing an academic degree in a subject in which she excells academically.

I am coming to realise that the way music is taught at her school, she is probably quite far behind what A-level students have typically done, so if she starts a BA in music in September, her academic background would be weaker than the other students.

Also, I am just learning the difference between - at Edinburgh - the MA in Music and the BMus. I see now that the BMus carries a bursary for lessons on two instruments - which suggests that BMus students are expected to continue lessons. Whereas the MA in music does not, but I didn't know that when picking W300 instead of W302. So I am wondering whether she has applied for the course that is best suited to her.

Any thoughts on how someone who likes peformance should be considering between BA in music and BMus - as alternatives to CUKAS, which this thread is about - would be welcome. Is anyone who is applying to CUKAS as a first choice also applying for music through UKAS, and if so, which places are you and your DCs considering?

Music is an academic degree. Just as academic as English. Interestingly, my DD1's standout subject other than music is also English. She won't contemplate even joint honours.

When DD1 applies next year she will apply through both CUKAS and UCAS. The UCAS places will be her fallback positions. She will be applying for BMus wherever possible. She was thinking about Cambridge but probably won't apply there in the end. She will also apply to GSMD and maybe an overseas conservatoire (but probably not). She looked at one US place briefly because of the person they have there but ultimately the location is so very dire she decided not (and let's face it, he could be gone before she even arrived).

Random - why do you think your DD is behind other A level students?

DD1 knows someone who is doing the Imperial/RCM thing. He seems to like it. Hard work though. There are musicians devoting ALL their time to music. So you're immediately at a disadvantage if you're doubling up.

Thank you Rabbit for your comments. The perspective of someone who is doing CUKAS with UCAS as a backup is exactly what I am looking for.

What I understand from your last post is that music doesn't work very well as a joint degree with other academic subjects. So a degree such as "music and literature" (Cardiff) or "combinined arts" (Durham) or "liberal arts with music pathway" (Bristol) would not be good, because there would not be enough time to spend on music. I think that is a general complaint about joint degrees, but it may be more pronounced if music is one of the subjects, compared with, say, "History and Politics".

I feel she may be behind the A-level students because she is doing IB, where the course is a mixture of academic, performance and composition. So possibly there is less adademic content than the A-level? Also, she did not study music as an academic subject at 16+, whereas practically all of the A-level students will have taken GCSE music. Finally, the IB music has admitted some students to the class that cannot read music, so the group is less advanced that an A-level group ought to be.

DD is now having additional, private lessons, where she can work on the set piece at a faster pace, so that should allow her to catch up a bit.

Thank you for the Imperial/RCM reference. I googled that and found lots of interesting information.

DD's music teacher wants her to apply next year to conservatories for classical singing. DH is eager to get her on to an academic degree.

I'm sure it can work well for many people. I know a few professional (one insanely successful) musicians who did something else at uni. Re the IB/Alevel - I don't know about IB but the A level includes performance and composition. Not quite sure what you mean about set piece - do you mean for an audition? Or is it one of the pieces on the syllabus for the IB? I don't know anyone who gets help from their school for a CUKAS audition...or the performance element of a ucas one. Many unis don't even require A level, grade 8 theory is an acceptable alternative since some schools don't offer A level music...

By "set piece", I meant like the equivalent of set book in English, so yes, one of the pieces on the syllabus for the IB. Her teacher is now working with her individually on that, in addition to the in-class work. DD is the only one in the class who can actually read music (she has G8 piano and G5 theory from outside school).

She is working on the performance element out of school.

For the composition part of A-levels, do most students do this with the teacher from schoo? Or do people get guidance/supervison from a compositition tutor, as they do for performance?

I feel so out of my depth with this music stuff.

It's all done in school. Including the performance aspect because what they are looking for from A level performance is not, it seems, what they are looking for from grade exams.

It sounds, with all the outside extra support your DD is getting, that she will not be behind A level students but actually probably ahead. So I wouldn't worry.

Dh trained at Birmingham Conservatoire which is part of Birmingham City University (UCE). Their degrees are 4 years.

Admission is purely by audition (well you need 2 grade E at A level)

Thank you for the reassuance.

What are "harmony exercises" or "examples of harmony and counterpoint"? DD was asked to submit written work including "some examples of harmony and counterpoint". I have no idea what they are talking about. Can anyone enlighten me? Or post a link to an example?

bachtrack.cmail2.com/t/ViewEmail/d/10E6B632A849965E/F876C54266DA2F669A8E73400EDACAB4 ... have a look at this to see what music graduates get up to.

I would only go to conservatoire if I thought I had a fighting chance of making it as a performer.
I would never consider sending an 18 year old singer to audition for conservatoire, far too undeveloped ...
Harmony exercises are part of most A level courses ... filling in the parts for, say, a Bach chorale or a Haydn quartet ...
You can generally chose how much performance you do at university or whether you want to weight your degree towards perhaps composition or research
Super-high offers for Durham combined arts
University's perfectly possible for music without A level ... my nephew got four RG offers with Grade 8 theory
Performance aside, everything for A level should be covered in school ... but it often isn't ... and many pupils get help, especially for composition, elsewhere.

Thank you Moominmammacat for the very sensible thoughts.

DDs teacher doesn't want her to audition this year as he says she isn't ready yet. He wants her to take a gap year to enable her to spend more time working with him, and then apply next year. He thinks it is a "waste" for her to apply for an academic degree in - for example - history. He thinks she should "follow her passion" to be a performer.

I think there are lots and lots of would-be performers, all of whom are very talented and hard working, but many of whom don't have jobs. Professionally, I am similar to an accountant so I find it a bit hard with all this creative energy around me and am really unsure how to advise DD.

I shall investigate external inputs for the composition tasks. I have not too much faith in the teacher, as all three of the compostion pieces have yet to be completed.

And thanks for the link! Really useful.

My DD1 isn't getting help from elsewhere. Sadly. We can't afford it on top of all the instrumental tuition for her and her siblings. I am fairly convinced that she will be extremely disadvantaged compared to most of the people she is competing against when she applies. Some of the private school people we know have FAR more input. Also some of the state school people where music is seen as more of a priority.

I would say though that I know singers who have gone to conservatoire at 18 and done very well.

Can you say any more about singers who've done well at conservatoire at 18 Rabbit? I would have thought it's an absolute no. I know some really good singers who left uni last year and are still waiting to be ready for conservatoire because voices just don't develop that early. Or maybe I'm thinking of different sorts of singing ...

Classical but not opera - well, not traditional opera. Although one of them did end up at Glyndebourne. The girl I knew who wanted to do opera had to do something else for a few years first (she did an academic music degree). Obviously people more focussed on musicals go to training at 18 (or earlier) but they tend to not go to conservatoires (though some do now I believe, I think there are conservatoire based MT courses...not something we've looked into since voice is DD1's 3rd study and although she will hope to sing while at college that will only be for the purpose of gigging probably, and for fun. Although if she goes into teaching then having voice will obviously be an asset).

We went to Chetham's open day a few weeks ago, there were lots of first study singers from 16, some can start as young as 14 if their voice is good and other instruments are strong.
DD is 10, loves opera and classical and has an audition for singing as a third instrument until 14, when they will assess for first/second study.

The students we spoke to at the leavers concert in July were all going to conservatoires to study singing, so quite popular at aged 18 from what I can gather.

That's really interesting ... all the ones I knew at Junior Conservatoires were told to go away and do something else first. Thanks for the explanation.