DS has unexpectedly passed 11+ - should we apply for grammar place or stick with comprehensive?

[LegsBenedict]

DS (10) sat the entrance exam for an isolated grammar in the next county (we have none in our LEA). He decided in early August to give it a go. We assumed, because of last-minute prep and no external tutoring and how far out of catchment we are, that he probably wouldn't pass – and even if he did, that he wouldn't get in with us living so far away – but he fancied the challenge so went for it anyway, for experience as much as anything. He did pass, and we've been told he has a 50:50 chance of getting a place if we put the school as first preference on DS's secondary application form.

This has put us in a bit of a quandary, because we just hadn't thought it would be an option. DS had homed in on a reasonable comprehensive about a 15-minute drive away – compared to the hour-long public transport trip he'd have to and from the grammar. Transport would be an issue for us. I would have to pay for it as DS's dad and I are not together, and maintenance payments are erratic. The grammar is also in the opposite direction from where I work, should transport not work out sometimes. I work full-time. Whatever we go for has to be affordable and workable for me (as opposed to me and DS's dad as a team).

I've spoken to the comprehensive about how well it caters for kids of DS's ability. It streams for most subjects from Year 8 and seems to get good results with these children. Overall (across all ability levels), 55-70% of pupils achieve at least five A*-C grades including maths and English, depending on a given year's cohort – so not bad but not consistently better than mediocre either. It feels like a nice school – friendly, outdoorsy, relatively few behavioural issues. It has been rated 'good' by Ofsted. But there are curriculum restrictions – geography or history, French or German – and I think pupils taking the academic route tend to sit only about eight GCSEs, occasionally one or two more. I don't mind this if they get eight good grades and have reasonable subject choices.

The grammar is in a different league – super high-achieving – with Latin and other foreign languages in the mix too. Otherwise, it's not too dissimilar subject-wise from the comprehensive – but a lot more GCSEs are taken. There's more, and very competitive, sport and DS loves sport. But the day is longer, there's way more homework, and DS would lose a few hours a day to travel on top of that. He wouldn't know anyone there (his closest friends are planning to go to the comprehensive he likes). And it's single-sex and he really likes having friends who are girls too. He is bright, has been working at level 5 (6 for maths) for close to a year and picks things up so fast, but is quite down-to-earth too – he isn't the kind of kid who comes home and wants to immerse himself in a book; he likes Xbox, his friends and lives for football. He really enjoys school, and his teacher has been superb at challenging him and taking him as far as he can go – but he likes the cut-off at the end of the day and then having his own life and doing his own thing, which I fear he wouldn't get enough of if he were to go to the grammar.

I feel that he has the chance of a highly rigorous academic education at the grammar, and all the opportunities that could lead to in his future, but I'm not convinced he'd be as happy there as at the comprehensive. And he'd have to sacrifice a lot more time to school/travel. But I don't want him to go to the comprehensive and then under-perform. I still want him to achieve what he's capable of. And I feel guilty (and a bit mad?!) to be contemplating throwing away the possibility of a place at a school that other parents seem to have invested their lives (and wallets) in for years.

So to the secondary application form ... WWYD?

And there are real pro's of going to an excellent 6th form college too, so I wouldn't necessarily worry about that point too much at this stage :)

I sympathise with your dilemma, OP. I think the advice you've been getting on the proportion of As and A*s is important, rather than average point scores.

Can I also add another factor you've only alluded to: you mention working in the other direction. It isn't simply a matter of convenience. How will you manage to attend parent's evenings, school plays, special events (I've just returned from an impromptu 6th form evening at my son's comprehensive, 15 minutes away from home), let alone if there's an emergency.

I'm a firm believer that a smart kid will do well in a decent schooling environment and that for some, too hard a school can put you off. But the key here is 'decent': what's worked for my DS is that his school sets (you mention streaming, are you sure you don't mean setting), so he has moved through the school with a cohort of bright, motivated young boys and girls who have been almost as important as their teachers both for mutual assistance in working, but also as healthy competition to do well.

The Telegraph publish a GCSE league table which includes the average point score for pupils at schools in each region - I've just looked at Hampshire for example which is fully comprehensive and many of the scores are 390/400 plus for high achievers - this makes 324 seem quite low I'm afraid.

God it's so hard isn't it,my dd has unexpectantly passed with same amount of practice as your Ds, shes adamant she doesn't want to go ,got her heart set on the comprehensive which is great if I'm honest more her,my Ds passed and is at all boys grammar but it's te right school for him never questioned it. I went to speak to her teacher and she advised to go with dd she will do well wherever but when I speak with other parents they look at me in horror that I'm not making her go feel like my head is spinning .

We're in the same boat!

DS passed the 11+ for a grammar in the next town (took the exam after taking a shine to it on the open day) and we have an outstanding comp which we are safely in the catchment for.

Our commute would be about half an hour (plus a 10 minute walk to the bus stop). The grammar bus gets back to our bus stop for about 430 which isn't too bad I guess.

As a previous poster has suggested, I guess that the comp is well within my comfort zone and the idea of the grammar scares me a bit.

DS has a great group of friends, most of whom will go to the comp. But as one of y friends pointed out, he could go to the comp and be in a totally different class to his "old" friends anyway so I imagine they will all we spread about.

DS has decided that he wants to go to the grammar so I am having to put my sentimental feeling aside on this one!

It's a tough one!!

In a county of grammars and secondary moderns, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone choosing a secondary modern over a grammar if their child had qualified for the grammar. There is such a big difference! The percentage of children at the comprehensive getting 5 A* - C is less than my local secondary modern, OP, and we have 30% of children at the grammar school. I agree about the points score because our grammars are way over 400.

Please do not feel you are being "above" yourself if you decide to go to the grammar. These schools should be for everybody. This is how they were set up and you have every right to access that education for your DC if you so wish. We have no 6th form colleges here. I know they can work well but I do think it leaves the schools with a different ethos.

What did you decide in the end, OP?

I'd plump for the grammar for the more rigourous and challenging education surrounded by dc of similar ability. He'll learn to use his commute time to do homework and read etc so not a bad thing really and the average secondary school commute at my ds1 school is 45 minutes on public transport and we are in the middle of a city.

I'd be worried about quality rather than quantity with the GCSEs. Given that you think eight, maybe nine or ten, is a low number, however many do they take at the grammar? It's completely unnecessary and does them no favours to end up with piles of mediocre results. DD took ten. DS will take ten this year. That's completely standard for their extremely academic schools (most kids get close to straight A*s). Not to put too fine a point on it, schools which push kids into 13, 14, 15 and sometimes even more tend to be nowhere near as good as they want people to think they are and are pointsgaming on the "points per pupil" tables.

Is it a direct bus? My DS does a fair bit of his homework on the bus (he's also out of the door at 7.30 and back at 5). He's getting more time for evening activities as he gets older and bedtime gets later.

Legs. I've dm ed you back and re read your op. I think you should do grammar. Def. also ask the comp what the boys results are. You'll find a big disparity

Legs, I think, given the pros and cons seeming to balance fairly equally, and given that you both liked both schools - I would listen to my child's preference. Its your ds that needs to go there, live with the journey and the space and the education, and if he feels strongly about it when the time comes to put the paperwork in, that's what I would do.

I had the reverse situation with dd (11) who liked our local state, which is up and coming and very close, but fell in love with a not-too-faraway independent, took the exam and got in: I found it hard to choose, but she didn't!

Good luck with the decision, its so hard until its made and then I promise all the stress (mostly) lifts

And although obviously stats matter, they aren't about the individual. If your ds is motivated and wants to do well, with the obvious support he has from you - he will (cohort affects stats hugely in comps, so you have to take that into account). At the same time, if you plump for the grammar and he isn't happy you could always move him in Y8.