A Level Maths - how much of a jump from GCSE?

[MsRyanGosling]

DS 1 has opted for A level Maths because he is perhaps fancying computer science at uni. The few we looked at all ask for A level Maths. He is at his schools 6th form.

He is not naturally talented at Maths. He got a B at GCSE in yr 11 and a C on Foundation paper in yr 10.

He is also doing physics (A @ GCSE) , IT (A @ gcse) and Psychology. He has no problem with these so far.

However, his 6th form have decided that they will be tested every four weeks and if they don't pass will be kicked off.

Had the first test this week and he got 21%. Says only one person passed, this was a boy who got an A* at GCSE and the highest mark in the school. Teacher said he was expecting 80%.

What I think has happened is DS was in set 3 for Maths and appears not to have been taught some of the higher level stuff which the kids ( a and a *s) who were in set 1 were. Perhaps something to do with I think, if I understand it right, he was fast tracked in yr 10? and missed stuff due to that, but I might not be right about that.

So to get to the bloody point.

Once they get into the A level syllabus and work will he be taught things from scratch or is he screwed if he doesn't get the a* gcse stuff. Does that make sense?! He can do the maths in physics well enough.

Its not impossible, just takes a lot of hard work. Dcs Head of Maths says its practise, practise and more practise.
Their school have also changed from OCR to Edexel which is supposed to be easier.

Morvah if your ds has an A at GCSE and is prepared to work hard then I'm sure an A at Alevel isn't out of reach. We get quite a lot of As from students who start off with A at GCSE, as long as they are prepared to put the work in.

5madthings - he will be fine if he has done further maths.
My DD got an A at Gcse but did an additional algebra course in year 11 and has found AS maths fine. She knows that A2 will be harder though and has spent several hours today doing past C3 papers as they have almost finished this module.
As pointed out above, what is needed is lots of hard work and doing lots of past papers, gold and Solomon papers.

To the people worried about their kids starting off with an a* at GCSE, you really shouldn't need to. They are starting from the right kind of level,even if it feels hard to begin with. The A graders will generally find it harder, but is should be manageable. No need to panic.
However, many places do set an A as a minimum for a very good reason.

I teach the IB Diploma Higher Level mathematics, not A level.

I would like to point out that some poor students (who have achieved A* in IGCSE) just do not get the more advanced mathematics, no matter how hard they try.

These are often the really diligent students who got excellent IGCSE results as they were prepared to sit down and WORK. However, this fantastic work ethic does not always succeed in mathematics.

I believe there is a sort of ceiling for most people in terms of how much maths you a can comprehend. I know that end of my degree I felt I had reached that level.

I think one of the biggest pieces of advice for anyone with students starting it is to ask for help when it starts to get tough. Something students who have never struggled with a subject feel comfortable doing initially. It doesn't reflect badly on them at all but they feel it does and is a big leap to admit its not so easy anymore.

Uncomfortable not comfortable!

Thanks Bruffin and Dragonlette.

Noodledoodledoo - I think you're right. DS doesn't like asking for help as he thinks it makes him look daft, however much we have told him it's even dafter not to! He's a lot better than he used to be about it though.

A bit off topic, but I find all this terribly sad. What is education for?

Ms Ryan (or I think it was you! Similar sentiments are expressed by many): "I don't want him to get a U. That would be totally pointless and damaging."

No it wouldn't. He wouldn't have a piece of paper, or not much of one, but he WOULD have 2 more years' maths. Apart from anything else, anything he found hard at GCSE would become laughably easy. That was my experience in a very average school where the maths department saw it as a challenge to teach anyone wanting to do A level maths and build their skills and confidence. I got a middling A level grade but am still confident using maths and that's what those wonderful teachers gave me because they understood that any learning is better than none

The results-driven education system is doing damage

Well, you are quite possibly right, Cleebourg in a theoretical situation, (and I'd totally agree about how sad it is - especially in Primary school - how 'test' and 'results' driven the system has become) however if a young person embarks upon an A-level course that it seems unlikely they will get a good grade from, then it is a waste of their time, I'm afraid. If they are relatively capable academically, then they could be steered in the direction of doing a subject that is more attainable, or if they are less academically able then maybe some other training. It doesn't do anyone any good to spend 2 years studying something to then fail. That's very different from studying something later in life to broaden your horizons or to improve your conversational french or to learn a specific skill -be that flower arranging, car mechanics or cooking, which is worth doing just for what you learn. You are, however, very unlikely to ever use A-level maths, except to get an A-level in maths, and then as a basis for further study in life.

BackforGood: Where did I talk about studying things later in life? I'm talking 16 year olds starting A level. And being told they can't do maths. Marvellous way to set them up for life in the 21st century

You didn't - I'm saying that there are times in your life when just studying to expand your mind / broaden your horizons / for fun are a great thing to do, but probably that 16 isn't the time to do that. It's a time when you would be better studying for a qualification.

To a certain extent I agree with you Cleebourg. In many other European education systems everyone does maths till 18 and I think this is a good thing. Maths helps support other forms of thinking, even in non-mathematical subjects and careers. However, in the English system, A levels are largely a tool to get to the next stage of education. Maths leads to more, and more difficult, maths Taking an a level in a subject you will not pass is wasting one, of only a limited number of subjects, and will often block your way to uni, as you won't possess the entry requirements. It's better that DC know this at the beginning than when it is too late.

Cleebourg I partly agree - but we are currently in a results driven environment - most (not 100% of students) start A levels with the aim of using the grades to get a place at university. Unfortunately if one of those grades ends up being less than those required the student misses out on the place and possibly the next step in their education.

If they are not wanting to go on to do a subject which requires maths but does require a good set of A level results it could potentially disadvantage them. So why let them 'waste' 2 years of studying if from the outset teachers can use their experience to advise and guide them.

It is sad that this is where we are in the education process. There is also the constant scrutiny about results schools are facing but most teachers do put the students welfare first.

So... industry and the government say we need more young people to study sci/tech/maths, but the system makes it impossible for them to continue with maths unless they are a 'natural'. Call me stupid but I think I see where the problem originates.
You can gain more from studying and therefore improving on something you are not naturally good at than something you breeze through. I definitely did not waste two years on maths A level, and neither did anyone else in my also-ran A level class, whether or not they passed. We emerged as more confident and capable than we'd been when we started.
Yes I understand the grades game and university requirements, but what a mess.

A couple of us on here are IB Maths teachers. In IB Maths is compulsory, but there are three levels so students choose an appropriate level. Appropriate to their ability and future plans. What worries me most about the OP's son is he is looking at a career that is heavily maths based but yet he struggled with a test on the fundamentals needed for A'level Maths.
I remember an English teacher at a school I worked at saying that if a student did A'level in year 13, they could guarantee them a certain grade, in many subjects hard work can get you there, that is not the case in Maths.

Clebourg I agree we need to be more numerate as a nation but I think we need to split the qualifications studied at 16+.

A level focuses on a level of maths which will be out of reach for a lot of students, those who did get the A/A* topics at GCSE, and will turn them off the subject more than make them anymore numerate - we already have a constant battle from 11-16 from students arguing constantly 'why do we need to learn this I am never going to use it!'

Unfortunately one of the biggest barriers and I hate this with a passion is parents giving students the ok to not like Maths as a subject - in the past 5 years I have heard far to many times a parent saying at a parents evening in front of me and students - oh don't worry I was never any good either. I doubt a parent would ever say this to a student regarding reading/writing.

However from the sound of it IB seems (sorry never been involved in delivery of that qualification) to have an option where students can continue and extend, improve knowledge. I think this is something that should be available to all students who want to continue to develop and improve their maths skills.

The government has certainly been making noises about introducing post-16 maths courses at a lower level than A-level for students who get a C or above at GCSE (those who get below a C already have to repeat GCSE/level 2). I haven't seen any discussion about content yet though.

My A at GCSE became an E at A-level

noblegiraffe It'd make sense to use something that already exists like the FSMQ but I'm sure if they do it they'd want to re-invent the wheel.

To be fair the FSMQ is seriously tough - its almost on a par with A level courses. We considered it for our top set with the government messed about with the exams last year and decided it would only suit a small number of our top set - 28 of whom got A grade or higher at the enf of yr 11.

Practical functional maths, not patronising but proper budgetting skills, financing skills, assessing offers, percentages, best buy type skills would be the ideal.

Big jump from GCSE to A level, OP. Take careful advice on this.

However if he is keen and with a LOT of hard work, he may yet do well. The tests they are generally given in AS year are the same ones they'll sit at A2, so he's "working towards" A2 level iyswim.

Not a practical question, but purely out of interest - is A level maths much harder than it used to be? I took it in the late 80s, and remember it being distinctly easier - or at least definitely less work - than A level English.

It's probably about the same Takver. GCSE Maths is much easier though.

Takver I think the main difference is the content of the GCSE unfortunately - hence the jump. They have taken bits out of the A level - I still have my A level textbooks to compare.

When I did my A level maths we had a week in the Summer term of Yr 11 post our exams to ensure we were up to speed to cover the gap - there are lots of schools which still do something similar - we give our students prep work over the summer to do.