A Level Maths - how much of a jump from GCSE?

[MsRyanGosling]

DS 1 has opted for A level Maths because he is perhaps fancying computer science at uni. The few we looked at all ask for A level Maths. He is at his schools 6th form.

He is not naturally talented at Maths. He got a B at GCSE in yr 11 and a C on Foundation paper in yr 10.

He is also doing physics (A @ GCSE) , IT (A @ gcse) and Psychology. He has no problem with these so far.

However, his 6th form have decided that they will be tested every four weeks and if they don't pass will be kicked off.

Had the first test this week and he got 21%. Says only one person passed, this was a boy who got an A* at GCSE and the highest mark in the school. Teacher said he was expecting 80%.

What I think has happened is DS was in set 3 for Maths and appears not to have been taught some of the higher level stuff which the kids ( a and a *s) who were in set 1 were. Perhaps something to do with I think, if I understand it right, he was fast tracked in yr 10? and missed stuff due to that, but I might not be right about that.

So to get to the bloody point.

Once they get into the A level syllabus and work will he be taught things from scratch or is he screwed if he doesn't get the a* gcse stuff. Does that make sense?! He can do the maths in physics well enough.

When I took it many, many years ago it was a huge leap from O level to A level. I assume it will still be the same if the same areas of maths are covered.

And if we did A level Physics you were also required to do A level maths for a year for the Applied maths.

I also started Further Maths at A level staright after O level - now that is terrifying!!

I think the level of maths in AS physics depends on the board and syllabus. DD did AQA B, and there was an awful lots of maths covered, particularly mechanics.
I think it depends where your DS's strengths lie in maths as to whether he will be able to cope with it. If he is strong at algebra, then he should be able to do AS level.
My DDs' school allows them to swap options within the 1st 4 weeks (and it has been known up until half-term. They tend to be tested in all subjects at the 3 to 4 weeks mark.

Fundamentally, it depends on how hard it was to get that B and what marks he got on the paper to achieve it.

Back in the days when GCSE Maths had three tiers, and the tiers were: Higher (A*-B), Intermediate (B-can't remember) and Foundation (D-G), I was entered for Intermediate and got a B. It was a fast-track course (I covered about five years of maths in four months, but I didn't find the maths particularly hard- just fun) and I then did AS Maths, didn't really notice a step-up, and got a B for AS Maths. I did do all the work set though, because it was maths work, and therefore at that point in my life, pre-internet, I thought that was a fun way to spend time.

The point I am trying to make, is that you are not necessarily doomed if you have not covered GCSE Higher material in depth before the A-level course starts. But you do need to like maths.

I do think you have to have a real talent for maths to be successful at A level.

The HT at my sons' school (where you have to have an A at GCSE to do AS maths) says he feels maths is the only subject where people reach a natural ceiling. In most other subjects, provided you put the work in, if you've done well in a subject at GCSE you should be able to do well in it at A level. In maths however, students can do well at GCSE but sometimes that is their ceiling. That certainly seemed to be the case with DS2. He did GCSE maths in year 10, got an A. Did C1 in year 11, got an E. Did AS maths last year, got a D. He put more effort into C1 which he sat with his GCSEs than he did for all his GCSEs put together. He had a maths tutor for most of year 12. Still ended up with a D in AS maths (and AAB in other subjects so he is capable of good results). I used to blame his early entry for GCSE maths but now I think he just reached his ceiling with GCSE. (And I pleaded with him not to do AS maths!)

I've just looked up the year 12 AS results for our school last year. Out of 84 students (who would all have had A*/A at GCSE maths), 8 got an A, 13 got a B, 22 got a C, 21 got a D, 13 got an E and 7 got a U. That's almost half the cohort who, despite doing very well at GCSE, got D, E or U at AS.

If I were in your position I would request an urgent meeting with his maths teacher. At our school course changes are allowed - timetable permitting - within the first few weeks of term.

Our Maths department requires an A at GCSE before students are considered for the course. The average prediction at A Level for anyone with lower than an A at GCSE is a U grade.

My son was going to do similar, Mrs Ryan, but got weeded out a bit earlier by a ruthless college and he has instead started a two year BTEC in IT (software stream) and is resitting GCSE Maths to get a higher GCSE grade (he did only manage a high C, not your son's B, but B was the very, very minimum they were prepared to accept which does indicate the move must be a tough one - after all colleges want students to succeed).

I understand his other subjects are going well but it may be another option if he has to change tack and has problems with the other subjects too. Or, maybe it is some exercise to get them to sit up and work harder? After all, if only one in the group passed!

Only 4 of my sons group out of 15 are aged 16. The others are age 17 having tried AS levels last year and struggled. It is very common.

You've all been massively helpful - thank you

At the moment they were/ are doing 'fundamentals', which I guess must be the A* algebra stuff, of which he knows some but not all.

Yesterday they started the teaching proper and he said he kept up with the class and understood it, but it is very early days.

He has a 3 hour gap today and the tutor is meeting with him for an hour or so but I am fairly certain he will want to stick it out now they teaching has started. The only thing is, he won't be allowed to change to anything else once he's gone so far. They already say "NO CHANGES" but I would argue for that - most colleges I've heard of/been to allow changes up to half term or else how else are students to know if they've chose the right/wrong thing.

I'll see how he gets on :)

Thanks again !

My school doesn't allow pupils with a B to do A-level because experience shows that it is just setting them up to fail, and wasting a year of their time. Many who fail end up having to resit Y12. It isn't just a case of needing to work hard to overcome the lower starting point either - we have, as a school, let some students who failed early tests continue the course because their parents have insisted, despite our better judgement, and they have all failed. Despite working their socks off, despite getting a tutor, despite blood, sweat and tears.

If he didn't spend the summer holiday working his arse off on his algebra, then he has been poorly advised.

I think the changes aren't about the subject you drop but more about the one you take up. My sons course was a bit slow for the first ten days but has really started to rank up the work now - in class and out. The longer a student misses this work the harder its going to be to transfer successfully. After all, a half term is probably 1/5 of the syllabus when you think exams take place in May/June next year.

Do you have the money to afford a bit of extra support for him? My ds is still in Y11 but has found online tutoring from www.mathsdoctor.co.uk/ to be excellent. If not the tutorial videos from www.khanacademy.org/ are free and very good.

Computer Science at uni is basically applied maths. The maths content is significant, substantial and hard, very hard. Many many people taking comp sci will have further maths at A level, especially in the Russell Groups. If he enjoys hardware, rather than algorithms, I'd suggest he takes IT instead.

If he got 21% on a test on fundamentals, then to me that suggests he will find the rest of the course very difficult.

I should be writing recommendations at the moment for students who are applying for Computer Science courses, they are likely to get the highest grade at Higher Level Maths in the IB Diploma. They have A at IGCSE Maths and A or A at IGCSE Additional Maths. When I tested them last year on Fundamentals they got over 80%. That is the kind of student who are computer science courses are looking for.

Maybe he needs to reconsider his aspirations.

Another school here who only accept students with an A at GCSE Maths to do A level. Being in set 3 there is a strong possibility he wont have covered a lot of the material which is considered fundamental hence his low mark.

As another poster says he will need to go over and above the work expected to 'catch up'. Get him to ask his teacher if there are topics he needs to work on, if school have access complete all A and A* grade lessons on mymaths or similar. Reside permenantly in Maths department working will show teacher he means business! Will also probably earn him more support.

With the no changes I can half understand it as missing the first half terms work of a subject can put students at a huge disadvantage we do something similsr at GCSE as well with options.

My ds got an A at GCSE, but apparently does have some sort of talent for maths. He threw a huge wobbly in the first two terms of AS. The mistake he made was not to go and ask for help. His teachers have an open door policy and any maths student can go into their teachers lesson and sit quietly until teacher has a few minutes to talk to them. To be honest he got away with a lot because he is well thought of in the maths dept and he keeps them on their toes. However he did end up with an A at A level.
FWIW my niece graduated two years ago from a computer science course without any A levels (she did a DIDA). It was a fight to get onto the course (Not RG) because she didnt have maths and had to take extra test to prove her maths ability. She has her own business now at just 23

It is quite a jump, a lot of places have transitional pre-courses for Maths A Level to help with that.

Here is an online interactive "Step-up to A levels" that he might have a go through to get a more secure warm up/starting point.

I think you have to take very seriously the stats mentioned above that over 80% of students starting A Level maths with a B at GCSE will end up with a U. His starting test result suggests he may well be in that group.
I realise it is not what you want to hear, want stories of people succeeding from this starting point. However, you need to be realistic. The college were already not keen to take him with his B and you say he persuaded them. As many people here say, an A grade is a minimum requirement in many places.
If I were you, I would be open to a switch of subjects. Perhaps ask if he can have another test sooner than 4 weeks time, and feedback about his suitability for the course. The fact that not having maths might limit later options is not a reason to stick with it, if success is a dim chance. You need to consider future options based on his ability and academic profile, not just on what he fancies doing.

My dd has just started a level maths as well. They were tested on fundamentals in the first week. If they got below 65% they have to go to extra classes to cover gcse work again and those who got below a certain mark were not allowed to take a levels.

This thread is making me feel very nervous about my son who has just started A Level maths. He got an A in his linear GCSE - 82% which I believe is closer to a B than an A*. I have drummed it into him how hard he will have to work.
My older son finished his A Level maths last year with a B. He really did struggle, especially in the beginning (the shock of the jump from GCSE!) but he eventually settled into it. He did complain about the workload though.
I am hoping that my younger son will be better prepared as he did the linear GCSE so the content should all be fresher than if he'd done modular.

My dd got an A* for maths GCSE and is finding A-level a significant jump.(also doing Chemistry and physics)

They had a test and she failed along with most of the class.
She says the teachers has said if they fail again they will be kicked off. Very harsh I think, but might be the kick up the proverbial she needs. She got the A* with minimal revision.

This is interesting reading, ds1 current yr 11 is looking at doing computer sciences. He is predicted all A's and A* at gcses including in further maths which he is taking as an extra gcse, lessons after school. So far none of it is a struggle but I think he will be in for a shock at a level. He is however very dedicated and organised so I think he will step up and put in effort required, just so far it's not hard for him, he is just naturally bright and maths and sciences etc just click with him.

Is there anything else other than further maths which is useful to prepare for a level maths?

This is all very alarming . . . DS has just embarked on A level maths and further maths. He got an A* at GCSE and really needs maths to do either computer sciences or electronic engineering at university.

He's found the first two weeks a bit of a struggle in terms of the workload, and has always had very little confidence at maths, unlike his other subjects, although his teachers always said he had no reason to be. He looks at the questions and panics, then he calms down and finds he can work it out.

He works hard and is a bright boy, all A*s and As at GCSE, but from reading this thread it sounds as though an A at maths A level is virtually impossible!

(dives into bottle of wine . . . . )