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Secondary education

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Original poster

Querying the streaming arrangements?

32 replies

agoodinnings · 04/09/2014 10:43

DD's school stream in year 9 based on maths ability, so if you are in the top set for maths you will also be in the top set for the sciences.

Although DD has 'Academic Excellence' recognition (top 10% of year group) in 2 sciences she is not in the top set as her maths ability whilst above the year average has not been deemed 'Excellent'.

I would appreciate some advice on how to handle a discussion with the school about this.

It seems that others who are more familiar with the school than us knew how important it was to do well in the final maths exam last year and engaged tutors. DD did not at still got 80%. I'm sad for her has she feels she has been demoted despite a glowing report at the end of a year of hard work.

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tootsey · 04/09/2014 10:57

Hi, my son is sorta in the same position. He has been put in the top maths class as he has the ability, but has also been put in the top home ec class which he is average at. On the other hand, he has been put down in english, so school has put him down in 6 other subjects, all of which he is near to the top of the class in. He feels disheartened, as if all his work has been for nothing. I rang school first and had a chat with deputy head, she has advised to give it 2 weeks as they are going to do a re-banding, then if im still not happy i am going to see them, to talk through issues. I would advise ring them and talk to year head, then go from there.

Original poster
agoodinnings · 04/09/2014 11:01

Thank you tootsey. I have sent an email requesting a chat and was hoping to get a response this morning but no joy. Wondering if I should just go ahead and ring anyway.

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tootsey · 04/09/2014 11:22

Go ahead and ring. I wouldn't even bother with emails. Better being direct about it.

Original poster
agoodinnings · 04/09/2014 11:33

I called, but of course he's not available. I have a sick feeling in my stomach waiting for him to call me.

DD would much rather be at the bottom of the top set than the top of the second set, she likes a challenge. The handful of girls that she worked really well with last year are all in the top set. If they were in the same set (it doesn't have to be the top) as her now she would be fine. She feels really demotivated and wonders what all her hard work was for. She is an excellent all- rounder and had a high eighties average across the board Sad.

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ttlshiwwya · 04/09/2014 11:49

I agree if it bothers you and your daughter then I'd get in touch asap.

My DCs school streams science separately from Maths (however all but one of the kids in the top set are in the 1st or 2nd set of Maths - the one who isn't gets extra help with the maths particularly for physics). I think this is fairer.

One thing I'd watch is the quality of the teaching between the sets. My DCs school tend to give the worst teachers to the top sets lower down the school so sometimes it is advantageous to be in the 2nd set (as long as both 1st and 2nd sets cover the same work at roughly the same pace).

Original poster
agoodinnings · 04/09/2014 12:14

Thanks ttlshiwwya. The thing is, there is 1 top set, 4 equivalent middle sets and then a smaller 4th set and only the top set get the option of taking additional maths which DD would like to do as she loves maths. So they all start iGSCE maths in y9 but set 1 finish it in 2 years then in the 3rd year whilst the others are finishing it off they do the additional maths GCSE.

No additional maths GCSE presumably puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to taking A level maths too.

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ttlshiwwya · 04/09/2014 12:31

In that case I'd definitely try to get her moved up a set - it seem unfair to limit choices so soon. In my DCs school there is a fair bit of movement between sets from Y7 to Y9.

Original poster
agoodinnings · 04/09/2014 13:13

How do you recommend going about it ttishiwwya? DH thinks we will end up going in to see the Head.

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bryte · 04/09/2014 13:24

I would find it unlikely that the setting/streaming has been worked out on one examination alone. Are you sure that is the case?

bryte · 04/09/2014 13:25

think it unlikely

Original poster
agoodinnings · 04/09/2014 13:32

It is based on ability in maths, so on overall maths performance.

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ttlshiwwya · 04/09/2014 13:52

In my DCs school where they are "set" by subject then any appeals are directly to the head of the respective department.

However if they "stream" then perhaps you need to appeal to the year head.

My DCs school explains how they set in their handbook although it's a bit loose - based on previous years test results with a little moderation (taking into account performance in class, homework and trend over year). I've never appealed but friends have used the "moderation" clause to successfully get their kids moved up. The one I know got his DSs class teacher to back him up (DS never revised for tests in Y7-Y9 but was excellent in class).

I'd try to find out as much as possible about how they decide streams so that you can put your case in the best light.

Original poster
agoodinnings · 04/09/2014 14:52

Thanks for the advice ttlshwwya. I spoke to the Head of Middle School who reckons that the maths and science results were taken into account and that she just missed out which I guess is much fairer and I think DD will be a bit happier with that. Cut off for top set 87% and DD 84.5% Sad.

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ttlshiwwya · 04/09/2014 15:19

So close. However if its any consolation I went to a school that didn't offer further/additional maths and I still have a good mathematics degree from a RG university. I probably had to make a greater step up between GCE to A Level but this was useful later on.

Original poster
agoodinnings · 05/09/2014 18:39

ttishwwaya, that's encouraging. Anyway, a few emails later and the situation is still the same, although it seems that the only data that was used to set this broad stream was the maths exam result after all.

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bryte · 05/09/2014 23:48

How much of a difference is it really going to make? Is it an independent school? (igcse) If so, is there going to be much ability difference between your DD and the other pupils in her designated set?

Original poster
agoodinnings · 06/09/2014 07:42

bryte, it hopefully won't make that much difference as it is a selective school. It's just not very nice for DD to feel that she as an individual means less to the school than their results. When I told her the head of middle school wanted to speak to her to reassure her, she said 'no he doesn't, he wants to patronise me'.

She has always been in set 2 for maths (missed the set 1 cut off by 1 mark in Y7) and maintains that if she was in set 1 she would do better. She has been with her v. academic form group for all other subjects (maths was the only subject set in lower school) and maths, were she is with a less academic group is her 'weakest' subject.

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Original poster
agoodinnings · 06/09/2014 07:43

where

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bryte · 06/09/2014 08:56

Hmmm, that's tricky if she feels like that. Does this have more to do with friendship groups as the underlying cause, or does she tend to be hard on herself generally when she perceives herself as not achieving as highly as she would like? I say perceives because she is clearly doing well in maths, despite any set she has been placed in.

Original poster
agoodinnings · 06/09/2014 10:47

Definitely not friendship groups as she is now with best friend. It's more about working with students that are sharp and focussed and keen to do well.

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bryte · 06/09/2014 12:13

If she ends up working at the top of set 2 for maths, perhaps she will get moved up. My nephew was moved down to set 2 to help increase his confidence in the subject and then moved back up to set 1 again. I think I'd be trying to help my dd see the situation in the best light. You could be doing her more of a disservice to support her idea that none of the students she will be working alongside in Year 9 will be bright, studious and motivated to do well. Unless you happen to know yourself who they all are. I hope it all works out.

Original poster
agoodinnings · 06/09/2014 16:34

Thanks bryte. She has come to terms with it and as you say, there are other bright students there. She was just disappointed not to be given a chance in the tops set after such great exam results (with the exception of 80% in maths) and feels that the method used to select students is too crude. She has lost a bit of faith in the school for not even considering her request and so have I to be honest. A few of the girls from her form will struggle to be in the top set and she suspects that they will move down. I don't think she'd move up now given the chance.

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Kez100 · 06/09/2014 16:53

She wouldn't move up given the chance? Why on earth not? Please don't encourage her to throw her toys out of the pram over this.

They have their rules on who goes where which, by definition, means a few just miss out on the top group and a few just squeeze in. That's life: you win some, you lose some. It's not personal. At least it is a formula that you can understand. She may think it crude but it would actually be even worse for the losers if they took subjective things into account (which some do) and a higher test scorer was to miss out on a top set place to a lower test score because if some subjective measure.

Same can happen with final exam grades - some students even miss out on their top choice University place because a grade comes in at one percentage lower than the required grade boundary. Happened to a friend of mine this year and his missed grade was in History - not even English (which is his degree subject choice).

Original poster
agoodinnings · 06/09/2014 17:36

She just wants to get settled in the set that she is in and get her head down. She is going for a different strategy to improve her results, one that is more independent; she intends to read ahead in the textbook and make revision cards as she goes along as well as committing the quick methods to memory.

She knows it's not personal, that's the problem. If you are going to stream broadly then you need to take more than one mark into account is how she feels.

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Kez100 · 06/09/2014 19:12

It's a good strategy to have, self reliance. It's something students often struggle with when they have to do it at level 3. However, if she is capable and offered the move up I would still encourage her to take it especially as it will place her more correctly for science.