Querying the streaming arrangements?

[agoodinnings]

DD's school stream in year 9 based on maths ability, so if you are in the top set for maths you will also be in the top set for the sciences.

Although DD has 'Academic Excellence' recognition (top 10% of year group) in 2 sciences she is not in the top set as her maths ability whilst above the year average has not been deemed 'Excellent'.

I would appreciate some advice on how to handle a discussion with the school about this.

It seems that others who are more familiar with the school than us knew how important it was to do well in the final maths exam last year and engaged tutors. DD did not at still got 80%. I'm sad for her has she feels she has been demoted despite a glowing report at the end of a year of hard work.

The setting arrangements are only for this year so hopefully next year she will be in the top science sets.

similar issue with a sudden change from seperate sets to streaming maths and science together. I've had no notification and already been told its been decided because of the timetable. That really sends the message to my ds that he doesn't matter as they are only doing this to 3 students - hows that for random policies! He doesn't want to talk to his form tutor either as knows he'll be told to get on with it. Any suggestions what to say when I meet with his headmaster

Being top of a second set can be better than towards the bottom of first set. It means a chance to properly consolidate new ideas and concepts. Especially in selective schools where a top set can contain a few kids who are very very good and who can either dominate or intimidate.

A lot depends on the teacher. My daughter yo-yo'ed between top and second sets. One top set teacher was hopeless at explaining, relying on bright kids to get it first time. Another was great and she felt she was being properly stretched. Second set built her confidence and a good teacher set plenty of extension work for those who finished quickly.

Kids change. As maths and science get harder, the naturals emerge. Some very bright kids will find themselves struggling with, say, chemistry. I don't know about state but the private schools we know are still shifting maths sets around after AS.

Do parents usually know these things, like each and every set & the entire set structure for the whole year in every subject?
Does your school actually publish all the info very clearly?
Why should parents have to be notified about changes?

DD notices because she's ultra-competitive. So I'm well-informed there.

My 3 boys are almost oblivious about their sets and sometimes or maybe often given incorrect information when they do mention anything about their sets or relative ability.

I suppose it's good to pay attention because some schools must get it very wrong for some kids... but The MN level of awareness & concern seems extraordinarily (unnecessarily??) high.

I'm very keen to ask secondary teachers how often they get parents requesting info about why their child is in set X. DD says that one parent kicked up a stink about her DD should be in top set English (yr7). The girl stayed there for 3 months & was moved down again. I wonder if that was a healthy challenge or a bit depressing for the girl.

Of course no one really knows. I am a Governor and do not know individual details. If I were to ask they may tell me but, if it were allowed, I am sure it would (quite rightly) be completely anonymised. If you go on playground/parent banter you still do not know if it is true.

I actually think it is a good thing for children to face these sort of things. I flew through school and college but failed one exam on my way to qualifying. I later passed but it taught me a great deal - including an empathy for those who had to work exceptionally hard to simply meet the pass criteria.

If you look, there can be positives from most experiences - the OPs daughter will find she has to dig deep and use self study skills to move her out of this situation and, when someone in the real-world says "you can't" she will be well prepared knowing inside "Oh yes I can - just you watch me"

A lot of this kind of thing is to do with timetabling issues.
Timetabling is notoriously difficult and arranging different ability sets in a wide range of subjects,almost impossible to timetable in most schools. So most will use a core subject to create ability sets and use those sets as the classes for a range of related subjects. So it is not unusual for the groups for science to be the same as for Maths (and Maths determined) and for Geography and History and RS to be the same as for English (English determined). So the crucial ones are always English and Maths.

The other subjects which can sometimes have a knock-on effect into other subjects are Modern Languages. So for example,if you choose French over Spanish or German, you may well find you are also with those who study French for other subjects...could be Humanities or DT, or Art or whatever.

It is disappointing to find that you are not in the top group,when you are great at that subject, because the setting is determined by ability in another subject. However, it really is unavoidable.

If it is due to timetabling, the school is unable to do anything about it, unless the Maths set is altered. If you are concerned, when expressing that concern, it is good to ask exactly when a review will be happening and ask to come in at that point to discuss it further. If they are vague about when people might moved up or down groups, ask for an appointment to discuss your child's progress after half term. When schools know you are closely following what is going on and that they are going to have to explain their actions, you often find there is a favourable outcome! Getting involved and voicing your concerns often yields better dividends than keeping quiet And hoping things work out.

It seems like at DD's secondary that everyone in the same yr group (205 intake) has the same subject at the same time (English, math, PE, whatever). So it's extremely easy to move sets and moving sets rarely disrupts anything else. Plus side of bigger schools, maybe.