JCQ and ofqual gcse grade warnings...

[nostress]

There was a news story a few weeks ago and again today (bbc eduation section and the times) warning about the results falling this year. Saying to governing bodies please dont sack heads! I'm very worried for my DS1! I'm just praying that he secured Cs and above.

Shooting - it did affect last years results as well. But since the official view is that kids with SpLDs 'shouldn't be getting A*s' (and since the private schools that educate Cameron's mates all had their extensive strategies for obtaining their pupils extra time sometimes without even proper diagnoses already in place so they weren't affected) nobody minded that.

I know kids at private school who were 'probably dyspraxic' (without anything so pedestrian as a proper diagnosis obviously) who were allowed extra time due to the persistence and the nous of their private schools. I know kids at state school who have proper diagnoses (and have had them for years) who were not given extra time purely because their schools lacked the resources and the contacts and the time to play the game effectively.

Friendface- coursework/controlled assessment has definitely been a hindrance to my DS. He got A* in his science mock and b/c in his ca.

Re private schools/extra time. A few days ago the bbc ran a story about an investigation into private schools and extra time. (That they have disproportionally high numbers)..

I am panicking now about English. As long as as my DS gets C's he will be ok but English was iffy so this could be bad news

nostress There is a thread here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/2147762-Dyslexia-private-schools-sharp-elbows-Is-this-true?reverse=1 My experience with my DDs and their peers is that at some state schools it is hard to access diagnosis and SENCO resource if your attainment is above average, even if that is below potential. So some parents resort to private assessment or even education. It is clearly wrong that you need money to access such support. Some private schools are pretty awful at supporting pupils with SpLds too, at least one locally not only offers very poor support but edges such pupils out. On the other hand our LEA makes use of local specialist private schools paying the fees for pupils whose needs their specialist units cannot meet (and to be fair they seem to have good strategies in place for diagnosis and meeting individual needs) so those schools will have 100% of pupils getting support. I would therefore expect that the private sector would be accessing the right support for more pupils. However private schools have to follow the new stringent regs and indeed were at the forefront of challenging the fact, acknowledged by OFSTED that they disadvantage able pupils. When I was researching schools for my DDs, 30% are educated privately in these outer London suburbs, the selective academic schools I looked at (some big names, though can't speak for where Cameron's cronies send their children) all had percentages of pupils getting support that reflected the proportion of pupils with SpLDs in the wider population, around 10%.

Though interestingly Eton, where undoubtedly Camerons cronies do send their children appears by some means or another to have admitted a smaller proportion needing support

It is possible Ofqual is preparing the way for a significant drop in GCSE grades this summer with the smoke screen of few Yr 10 entries. More likely the sudden increase in the number of exams Yr 11 pupils were expected to sit over the summer could have impacted on the quality of the results. I am sure Ofqual more be reluctant to acknowledge the half baked nature of the present GCSE reforms which excluded just what was being asked of YP.
It is inevitable removal of speaking and listening in English and SPaG will result in much lower grades than last year. As my DC pointed out every language has a spoken element why not English?

Rabbit if these 'children you know of' at state schools who had proper diagnoses did not get the extra time they were entitled to, it is not because the schools lacked 'resources, contacts or time'. What resources are needed if the children have diagnoses? The exams officer - and there has to be one of those- fills in the necessary form and provides the evidence. This is part of their job, not something needing extra resources. Nor are 'contacts' needed, if a diagnosis has been made. Contacts where? What for?
It is more likely that children at private school without diagnoses will not get extra time, rather than the other way round. Schools have to provide evidence for the exam boards - having a 'contact' does not circumvent this.

I didn't think a diagnosis was enough for extra time. At my school the SEN department badger us for tests that the child has sat in class that haven't been finished in the time, then completed in a different colour with extra time and the difference in results highlighted.

That sort of thing requires a lot of organisation and forward planning. Often there's a mad rush coming up to the exams.

noble giraffe Evidence of need was always supposed to be available to support a case for extra time, my DDs school certainly gathered it, and my older DD, who was diagnosed moderately dyslexic didn't get extra time as a result of them judging there was inadequate evidence of need. She now has extensive support at university where her problems really started to have an effect. I suspect some schools didn't bother to the same extent because the exam boards never called it in.

Under the new regs you can have a diagnosis of dyslexia but if your processing and working memory scores are not in the below average range which really is a quite severe disability for a bright pupil, I seem to remember the upper limit of that range is at the 14th percentile ie 86% of the population would score better, then you do not get extra time. That is the source of discrimination against those who are bright since an average score would be a significant disability for someone whose ability is otherwise in the top eg 5%.

All of this applies in private as well as state schools of course. I have experienced the same last minute rush to get in all the paperwork, especially when the exam regs changed last year with six weeks to go to the actual exams, it was next to impossible to get an appointment with an Ed Psych in time, thankfully my DDs pre university assessment could be done by a Teacher assessor. I can't think of a private school that has more than one exam officer and most have just one SEN specialist although there are some centres of excellence that do offer more extensive support with drop in centres etc. but the fact some devote more resource to it does not mean that they have any sort of special routes around the regs, I know of a lot of pupils who have a diagnosis and experience significant disability who have lost the benefit of special arrangements in both private and state schools, the policy really has moved away from the principle of levelling the playing field.

Shooting I totally agree!

indigo The children I know of include my own DD1. A diagnosis is not the key driver for being allowed extra time, the key driver is how you perform on specific tests which include how quickly you can write in a 10 minute period, and how legibly, they also include things like working memory - which are evaluated not in terms of what a child of a given ability should be achieving if they had no disability, but what an average child would achieve. This discriminates against very bright dyspraxic kids in two ways - firstly, they often can hold it together for 10 minutes. Few exams last 10 minutes. Secondly, the very bright can be severely hampered and still turn in test scores just in the 'average' range (especially for a test lasting only a short time). In which case, it's a 'no' for extra time. Private schools have dedicated people who deal with this ALL the time (not all private schools but some private schools), they have the time and the experience to game the tests, to make a fuss if they don't get the answer they want etc etc. State schools rarely have the resources or the experience to put a lot of effort into this area.

I know people with kids at private schools who declared their kids were 'probably' dyspraxic who then gamed the evaluation (not performed by an ed psych but, usually, an OT) and got the time. I don't believe those kids are dyspraxic. Not for one second.

Rabbit My own DD is dyslexic and dyspraxic and at her last assessment with a teacher assessor, the standard 17+ assessment done for the UCAS process, she came out saying that it really isn't possible to game the tests. There is too much going on, too many challenges and you really don't have time to think in that way. I obviously agree with you about the discriminatory nature of the regs but I honestly do not know of people qualifying for special arrangements who do not need it. I do know of those who need it who are not getting it both at state and private schools.

In addition at the 20+ plus private schools in this area that I have direct experience of including big names, the St Pauls' Westminsters etc you get the testing done outside the school. The facilities are variable, some for instance have fantastic drop in centres where pupils can go for advice when they need it and support with software, kindles etc. obviously that is a fantastic resource I wish my DD could have enjoyed, it seems to be mainly the boy's schools, but none have people whose job it is to game the system. Indeed when I challenged my DDs school when they denied my older DD extra time because she was getting the marks in the time when I knew that at most local state schools she would have been given special arrangements on the strength of diagnosis they were very clear that they regarded it as a matter of upholding the schools reputation, by having scrupulously fair processes that were not open to question. In fact that was to miss the stress that put her under and the anxiety which finally led to a first year meltdown, thankfully at uni we have experienced brilliant support. I am not doubting there are the unscrupulous as there are in all walks of life but as far as large scale gaming of the system and extrapolating your experience to the entire private sector it just does not chime with what I have seen and experienced.

northernlurker
I am surprised that you allowed them to keep your child on all A* targets.
I hassled until I was given a mix of A* /A and a B
because
the whole point of a target is that it can be achieved or even exceeded
it is not possible to exceed straight A : in fact 12 A plus 1 A is a failure on that target
but not a failure in any real terms
other than a failing by lazy team leaders looking to their table placement rather than the good of the child

FWIW
I've been telling DD since before her mocks that there is HUGE political pressure this year to push down the numbers of A* even if the raw results are good
therefore not to compare with other years, just to do her best against the others in her cohort.

Roll on the 21st

See, we have been told that there is NO further assessment/evaluation needed for the UCAS process. I've enquired. And that was what I was told. So either your private school has gone over and above what is the baseline necessity - which advantages its pupils - or our school doesn't even know what is the baseline necessity. Which disadvantages its pupils (and thus advantages other pupils. From schools with more nous, more contacts, more money etc). You are extrapolating the provision in state schools in a posh part of London (which are significantly better funded than schools where I live - nearly £3k per Pupil per year more, they get)to the entire state sector. What you are describing is completely outside anything I have experienced and I have two daughters with severe dyspraxia (and frankly their handwriting issues are the least of their problems).

The private schools I have close dealings with have one exams officer and one person dealing with SEN provision.
There is no gaming of the system.

Thanks for the guilt trip but I strongly questioned the target setting and the rationale at the time. I have to say that School were not exactly lining up to drop the targets and dd had in any case been given them and it was clear was holding herself to them whatever was done 'on paper'. Like you we have talked at length about the politics of the situation with her.
My learning from this is that I will be contacting school at the end of Year 9 for her sisters and making it clear that they are NOT to be given A* targets. I agree with you that nobody should.

Northern
Did not mean it to be a guilt trip.
DD will be gutted if she does not hit the row of stars and it has taken all of my and DH's negotiation / persuasion skills to soften up for the fact that raw marks and grades are not the same thing.

I chatted to a friend whose DD just got a first from Oxford (now starting her dPhil) and they battled against the A* prediction fallback for v v bright kids - especially when its not in the control of the kid

indigo
DH goes to dozens of schools every year.
dream on if you think they do not ALL do their utmost to get the best out of the results for their kids, using sportsmanship or gamesmanship

Sorry, am just very, very sensitive about it My dd will be gutted too. She did say yesterday though that she'll be happy if she's got the *s in the A-level subjects she plans for so that was progress.

Rabbit the advice we had about assessments came from the charity that we organise the assessments through, we pay but those who cannot afford it do not, they work with plenty of children from state schools. And they are 60 miles away in the sticks because London Ed Psychs are exorbitant and completely booked up. My DDs last assessment had been pre 16 and we were advised we would need a further assessment, not a full Ed Psych report but a supplementary report produced by a teacher assessor, their teacher assessor. Presumably the advice is available online and is something you will want to explore with the Learning Support set ups at the unis you visit for open days.

I am struggling to recognise the slightly dizzy single SEN teacher at my DDs private school as some sort of savvy scheming SEN fixer. She is lovely enough for giving reassurance and occasionally even the right advice on how to tackle essays etc but she wasn't even sure if it was me or her who originated the form the teacher assessor signed for the exam board, and in the end I had to fix it.

I am not extrapolating anything, my whole point is that state school provision varies enormously. Our LEA just happens, probably as a result of parental crusades, to have processes in place that ensure good provision for pupils with special needs, but I know that does not extend beyond our borough boundaries, and nor does it extend to ensuring a good standard of education for all it's pupils, or even enough places for all it's pupils but that is another story......

One thing I have learnt from my and others experiences is that in state or private schools if you have a child with SpLDs you have to be constantly on the ball, acting as facilitator, investigating options, correcting misapprehensions etc etc etc. it shouldn't be the case because pupils without the advantage of a proactive parent definitely lose out. The smoothness with which her firmed uni has started the process of putting support in place and the Student Loans process has led to her being granted DSA and her needs assessed has been a complete culture shock for me.

'There are new rules regarding extra time meaning it is much more difficult to get it. Bright dyslexic children who could get it before have had it removed if their processing speed is average. '

Not true.

We are just praying for Cs otherwise night school is a possibility

The Speaking really helped DD & without it she was borderline so re-did loads of CAsto try & scrape a C not sure that is really allowed

Katy
the school leaving age is now such that the schools and colleges will help out the D/C boundary kids
however
in this exam season, the political clobbering is at the upper end

for once I hope they leave the C/D alone : because the eejit politicians forget that linear exams are entirely unsuited to the way a lot of kids think and entirely unsuited to the life and work skills that many such students will need.

But she is off to Performing Arts college& they don't do English & Maths at all!

Katy
Its worth checking that as I think they have to from September - the new rules about ensuring that all kids have the core subjects if possible.

bottlecat that is true, to be granted extra time dyslexics now have to have processing and working memories scores that are in the below average range. www.jcq.org.uk/Download/exams-office/access-arrangements-and-special-consideration/regulations-and-guidance/access-arrangements-and-reasonable-adjustments-2014-2015 There are provisions to consider cases individually if there are other issues but when Examination Officers feed the scores into the system a bright pupil with scores in the average range will not be granted extra time and the school would have to submit additional evidence, with an uncertain chance of success. I know a number of pupils in that position who have lost their entitlement to extra time. The upper limit of the below average range is the 14th centile ie 86% of the population would score higher......

I thought they had to offer English and Maths resit now with the new post-16 requirement? Or have I misunderstood?

www.edexcel.com/notices/Documents/Post_16_English_mathematics_WEB.pdf