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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Avoid Bullies or Send Child Elsewhere? - Thoughts Please

48 replies

JohFlow · 18/05/2014 14:52

Our Choice:

Local Secondary school with bullies from previous primary (6 year hist. of severe and extensive bullying)

or

Out-Of-Area Secondary school with fresh start.

Which would you opt for?
Do children need to be in a completely separate environment to heal from past hurts?
Is planning to keep the parties separate in the same school ever satisfactory?

seeking views.....

OP posts:
Martorana · 18/05/2014 15:00

What does the child concerned want?

jonicomelately · 18/05/2014 15:05

Fresh start without a shadow of a doubt.
If you ask your DC they'll say they want to go where their current school 'friends' go so personally I wouldn't put them in the position of asking them.

CaulkheadUpNorth · 18/05/2014 15:07

How big is local secondary? If they are going from one form primary to ten form secondary then that's more preferable than large primary to smaller secondary.

Sparklingbrook · 18/05/2014 15:11

Out of Area. We have been there and done this. but after a year in the local secondary.

mercibucket · 18/05/2014 15:19

move child now then see how they settle i new primary?

mercibucket · 18/05/2014 15:20

sorry - do you mean you have moved them already?

Original poster
JohFlow · 18/05/2014 15:22

Thank you for your comments - keep them coming.

Joni -unfortunately son has few close, friends after bullies have sabotaged his relationships. So friends moving over have less swing on decision.

Caulk - The local secondary is 1,500+, his current primary is just short of 700.
Not sure I understand your comment yet Caulk - wouldn't it work the other way - as in; he would be better in smaller of the secondaries?

OP posts:
Lottiedoubtie · 18/05/2014 15:27

Fresh start out of area.

Even if the school manage to keep him away from the bullies (which sounds doubtful given that from the numbers you've given the number of children in his year group won't be that many more than at primary? -or did you mean 700 yrR-yr6?-) they won't be practically able to keep him away from all the kids who know him and are used to seeing him as 'the kid who gets bullied' or 'the vulnerable/sad/unhappy/unpopular kid'.

11 year olds aren't always known for their sensitivity towards others and they will all be jostling not to be 'bottom of the pile' in year 7.

I think a totally fresh start is more likely to go well for him.

RaisinBoys · 18/05/2014 15:53

Fresh start. Absolutely. Hope he settles well. Lovely friends are just around the corner. Good luck!

FiveGoMadInDorset · 18/05/2014 15:55

Fresh start,

Original poster
JohFlow · 18/05/2014 15:56

Thank you for that Lottie. I had not thought of the extra pupils that might carry on the old culture. This is a very important point to make. Especially when it comes to kids sharing what they previously know of each other. My DS has a tendency to be a little quiet before he gets to know people (introverted). This may be an opportunity for other kids to get in and pass on previous ideas whilst he is still observing and trying to decide who he likes. Good point-well made

OP posts:
Nocomet · 18/05/2014 16:03

Yes, a fresh start, as Lottie says a primary of 700 will send too many Y6's to it's feeder school for them to be easy to avoid.

(Even if only 1/2 the current Y6 go to the nearest school that's still 50 DCs scattered over 6-8 teaching groups. Your certain to be with several people you know).

Original poster
JohFlow · 18/05/2014 16:08

Thanks for that Noco.

Do children need to be at a different school to their bullies to properly heal - do you think?

OP posts:
Sparklingbrook · 18/05/2014 16:10

It was true in our case Joh.

CaulkheadUpNorth · 18/05/2014 16:15

I meant it as in if he is one of 30 in current year six, moving with same pupils to a year seven of 300, there is a much higher chance he will make new friends and be separated from bullies than if he is going along with 100 other pupils to be in a year seven of 150 pupils.

Lovelybunchofcocopops · 18/05/2014 16:21

I think I would go for the fresh start, but also try to encourage new friendship links in that area, eg out of school activities, football, cubs, tennis, swimming etc, so at least some familiar faces will be around.
I don't know that keeping parties separate will heal past hurts, but a fresh start is always a good opportunity to move on and leave the past behind.

Original poster
JohFlow · 18/05/2014 16:35

aah I see now Caulk.

I can see how more children would mean more options for socialising with different children. This would be a plus for a child who was energetic in their socialising and outward-facing.

It could also pose a challenge for my DS - being introverted, slower to make friends (because of his past). To try to pin down the problems caused by long-term bullying; my son is fearful to try new things, lacks self esteem, is distrustful of new faces, is under-socialised, has lost some of his resilience and humour. All which will need some attention to right. Work starts in the summer holidays - and we don't want it eroded when he goes onto Secondary.

Maybe these things could happen within the school with the bullies but I question whether we would just have an easier time and better chance of success if he had a new start?

OP posts:
jonicomelately · 18/05/2014 16:40

The point I was trying to make OP is that I me children are very reluctant to move schools or go to schools their fellow pupils aren't going to en masse. I'm not sure why (and there are always exceptions to this rule) but even when it's obviously in the best interest of a child to move away they'll usually tell their parents they don't want to. There are scores of people who tell stories of asking their bullied DC if they want to move schools then regret it years later when their DC has persuaded them they don't want to move. I think in these circumstances a parent has to step in and make a decision for the child.

jonicomelately · 18/05/2014 16:40

I should add good luck with your decision. You must have been to hell and back Sad

AChickenCalledKorma · 18/05/2014 17:17

Also very important to try and have a serious conversation about both potential secondary schools about how they deal bullying, and also how they handle the transition from primary for a child who may find it hard to make friends. If the "fresh start" school has good answers to those questions, it's a no brainer.

Nocomet · 18/05/2014 17:35

I think it would have helped DD1, not to go to school with the girls who actively ignored her, but that would have had her at school with the boy who kicked her out of school as well as in school.

It's not an easy choice and no familiar faces (even indifferent or slightly hostile familiar faces) is scary.

DD1 is a quirky dyslexic and she would have got a hard time where ever she went. She just didn't fit in, didn't know how to and didn't want to.

She's now 16 and I can reassure the OP that whatever she chooses, even if Y7/8 are hard, it gets better.

DDs peers have grown up and she has learnt to play the game just enough that she now rubs along pretty nicely thank you with her class.

She doesn't see any of them out of school (we live in the sticks) and she has her Ranger Guide partners in crime to give her teen company and keep her sane.

bidibidi · 18/05/2014 17:42

Go Out of Area (lots of relevant experience). Wouldn't even think about it.

Original poster
JohFlow · 18/05/2014 19:12

Joni - I asked for my DS's opinion; but I also let him know that it was an adult decision and that I would take responsibility for the final say. He seems able to handle this level of autonomy well and likes his opinion heard. Thank you for the well wishes.

AChicken- yes asking how the schools deal with bullying is another aspect to this.At the school with bullies (1,500+) the strategies for dealing with bullying seem to be more reactive rather than pro-active. There is very little preventative work and there is an attitude that if things are not mentioned then no intervention will be initiated. The children are then told that they should only mention 'bullying' when it is persistant. There is an online reporting system for bullying with 64 persistant incidents over the last 18 months. Children have left that school to come to the out of area one. Ofsted have also looked into the incidents as a concern and mentioned 'confirmed incidents of bad behaviour'. I should also say that we live on the same street as the two ring-leader bullies - so getting out of area would give emotional release for at least part of the day.

One of the ring-leaders is currently under threat of exclusion because of the bullying. If my son goes to the local school they will meet up again. And my DS will have been the one that had him excluded (as he will see it - he's not very good at taking responsibility himself)

The out of area school has sound bullying work. Are strong in their descriptions of bullying and how they will not tolerate it. They have a number of in-house programmes (training, mentoring, bus monitors, resilience lessons, counselling etc) to help previous victims and bullies alike and the pastoral team are classed as 'outstanding' by OFSTED. There is also a close relationship with outside agencies for more targeted help. when speaking to the school staff they are able to jump straight to what I want to say - deeply empathic.

Noco - I think kids who are quirky have a hard time in school - yet the very things that make them different will be the things that people fall in love with them for later. My DS is fab and quirky like your DD. Its just a bit of a struggle as long as there is an external standard to conform.

OP posts:
jonicomelately · 18/05/2014 20:22

Your approach sounds really sensible. Your DS deserves to have an education where he feels happy and safe. I really hope you manage to achieve this Smile

RaisinBoys · 18/05/2014 20:26

From all you've said in your last post I'm at a loss as to why you are conflicted. The out of area school gives your son a chance to be free of the people who have clearly been making his schooling hell for ages; the out of area school has a well thought out strategy for dealing with bullying; your son won't have to put up with his tormentors inside school as well as outside (you say you live on the same street ).

People say children are resilient. They shouldn't have to be this resilient. You have an opportunity to give him a fresh start. In your shoes I wouldn't be hesitating for a second.