Fed up with the education divide ?

[johnbunyan]

As a former Head of an independent school, I am fed up with the ideological divide in education, and want to start a national discussion on constructive ways to help the state and independent systems grow naturally together. I am secretary of a national group of independent day schools ( mostly the old direct grant schools ) and we look back to a time when there was much greater co-operation and a real sense of social mobility. Can we return to such a consensus ? I would love to hear ideas and start building towards such a consensus, since, as we approach the 2015 General Election, it will seem a long way away! I sense that many parents would like government and schools to work something out -and quickly -since the educational divide is simply not helpful to anybody - least of all the present generation. How many out there agree?

There are numerous 'comprehensive' schools that 'partially select' their students with an aptitude test for a particular specialism though, eg for music, technology or languages. It's no surprise that these schools are amongst the better performing comprehensives.

Clavinova
Please name a few that do as I've never heard the actual names of any, backed up by links

one of the highest performing comps in the country is near here and it does not have any admission test, nor do any other Hampshire comps.

Having just looked up the "music aptitude test"
musicaptitudetest.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/which-secondary-schools-use-the-music-aptitude-tests/
not many any comps on that list

I'm a Dad who went to independent school in the 1970's and sends his kids to the local comp.

I applaud you for opening a debate here, I hope you get something out of it. I think there IS a divide between the AVERAGE comp and the average private, and the thing I have to drive home to my kids to to aspire high, because to be honest, the school doesn't -it is too preoccupied on the 30% who don't really want to to learn.

As regards specific examples, I am disgruntled, for example that my kids school only does the single Maths GCSE. All the privates will add Stats and, for some, Additional/Further Maths, just I like I did in the 1970's. By doing deeper maths early, the privates get a springboard into A-level maths and science which will take them on to Russell group Uni's. Mainly because the Maths Dept is obsessed with the league tables.

To be honest with you, I think the divide was just as big in the 1970's.

The bright kids are there in the state system, as are good and at times inspirational teachers, they just need to me incentivised to aim high.

Plenty of aptitude tests in and around London and only the schools I've heard of without searching - you'll have to do without the links though:
Prendergast Hilly Fields 10% music.
Chestnut Grove 30 places art, 30 language.
Mill Hill 10% technology, 10% music, 5% art.
Harris Crystal Palace 10% technology.
Holland Park 10% art.
Campden Girls 8 music places.
Glenthorne,Sutton 25 dance/drama/music.
Roseberry,Epsom 10 places music.
Not forgetting the siblings who follow on afterwards.
Well done to Fortismere in Chestnut Grove who've admitted this covert selection and recently changed their admissions policy

Dealing with the bottom 30% who don't really want to learn is the cause of the divide. Independent schools don't have to deal with them. The teaching methods and environment is not working for those bottom %. And this has nothing to do with SN. When SEN needs are properly met, SN DC do well.

Hampshire was mentioned as being non selective, but Hants LEA is below national average in league tables...

Responding to your last point Talkin - all 10 of the highest performing schools for GCSEs in Hampshire are independent schools. The highest performing comprehensive school is Thornden with a free school meal rate of 1.4% - one of the best examples of 'selection by postcode' I've come across. It's a pity, but we can't all move to Hampshire!

correction - 'selection by wealth'.

vanilla
I cannot find a link that has results by "LEA"
probably because LEA secondary schools are now in the minority

could you link for me?

Biggest mistake of my life, not insisting on DD2 going to a Private prep school at 7....

and yeah, we all know about Thornden round here ... its a running joke

now explain the rest of the schools that do not have selective intake

I think it would really help if the sibling rule stopped counting at secondary school. People moving close to their chosen school for a year, then moving to cheaper larger accommodation in order to get two or three children in will think twice about it, leaving spaces for local children only. Property prices will even out slightly as people stop playing the game. A lottery system would also be helpful for schools within a reasonable distance from the child's home.

Here is one link the infor for each school is compared to LEA average and national average
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/leaguetables/10590630/A-level-school-league-tables-2014-compare-your-schools-performance.html#region/South_East
BBC league tables also do comparison between counties/LEA

I don't understand your point Talking. What do you want to prove?

"-Particular aptitude in either sport or performing arts (governors award a maximum of 10% of such places in total). Places will only be offered under this criterion if the parent has expressed a preference on the “Common Application Form” for Fulston Manor School)"

Extract for a Fulston Manot school admissions policy 20124/15. Fulston Manor is a comprehensive school- well, as comprehensive as a non grammar school in a selective area can be,

i often wonder what makes teachers want to teach in the private sector

you get to teach the cream of the crop - if it is a school that is fee paying and has an entrance exam

or you teach kids whose parents pay loads hence you get paid lots to teach them

what's the joy of teaching if you don't teach all abilities and backgrounds.

Hampshire comp schools only go to 16 so that A level link is irrelevant

do you have a more reputable link than the Daily Grammargraph?

Fulston Manor is in Kent : it is therefore by definition not comprehensive
and there is a HUGE difference between
www.fulstonmanor.kent.sch.uk/page/?title=Admissions&pid=733
expressed a preference
and passed an exam

True, Talkin- no exam. But there is an audition.

Oh stop it, Talking. Everyone knows Hants is an educational nowhere-land for years. It's below average as a county in all league tables.

I moved out of there because of mediocre education on offer.

An interesting chestnut is chariable status of many private schools. Many private schools were set up hundreds of years ago as charities. I wonder what the original founders of some private schools would think of the high levels of social exclusivity. I feel that private schools with charitable status need to support their local community. Educating the rich is not a charitable aim in its own right.

I think that social moblity is caused by lack of parental aspiration rather than lack of money or going to comprehensive.

In the UK we have state schools for the rich and state schools for the poor. Poor expectations of children from low income families has damned thousands of children. It is easier to go against the grain in primary school than in secondary school. Peer pressure makes it very hard (not impossible!) for the bright child to suceeed in a rough comprehensive.

I think we need to do more to stop distruptive children ruining the education of the other 29 children in the class. We need more specialist units and special schools to cope with children who have severe behavioural problems rather than repeatly moving them from one sink school to another. Wealthy middle class schools need to be forced to go over their numbers and take their fair share of difficult children.

It would be interesting if all secondary schools were forced to certain proportion of places for children on free school meals. I would like ablity banding so that all secondary schools have enough children to run a decent top set.

Everyone knows Hants is an educational nowhere-land for years. It's below average as a county in all league tables.

Link please

I already given you two sources. I't ear-on-year below average.

Here is another www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25332808

Comprehensive model doesn't work, unless it's modulated by hidden social / wealth selection. And the key reason is the bottom X%.

i often wonder what makes teachers want to teach in the private sector

Money.

Good friend of my DH is head of PE and has nearly doubled his income making the switch.

vanilla
that link is KS2 results so it utterly irrelevant to the y7-y11 Hampshire comps
so far you have linked primary and A level
and actually in the primary link, Hampshire is above average if you check the data

still waiting for a scintilla of proof that hampshire is the prrof that Comps do not work

Vanilla.

How about a three tier education system such as
Top 25% Grammar School
Middle 50% Secondary/High /Technical U.T.C
Bottom 25% Vocational schools linked to learning a trade..