Fed up with the education divide ?

[johnbunyan]

As a former Head of an independent school, I am fed up with the ideological divide in education, and want to start a national discussion on constructive ways to help the state and independent systems grow naturally together. I am secretary of a national group of independent day schools ( mostly the old direct grant schools ) and we look back to a time when there was much greater co-operation and a real sense of social mobility. Can we return to such a consensus ? I would love to hear ideas and start building towards such a consensus, since, as we approach the 2015 General Election, it will seem a long way away! I sense that many parents would like government and schools to work something out -and quickly -since the educational divide is simply not helpful to anybody - least of all the present generation. How many out there agree?

I asked you nearly a week ago:

"'the more traditionally academic child who feels held back in many instances '"

These children are the victims of social apartheid. The sort of apartheid which sees those from wealthy and motivated family hived off into separate institutions - grammar, private and church. Leaving the brightest children from families less able to manipulate the system under-represented in comprehensives secondary moderns.

Schools which are disproportionately full of difficult children and the less able. This makes them difficult places to teach and to learn in. It's exactly the same in wider society. Create ghettoes and watch people sink to the bottom in them.

I was a teacher for 17 years (state sector) before I had my children. I have worked in inner cities; a small village school and was a head of Key Stage in a very large primary school. I was also a Special Needs Co-Ordinator for 5 years and was seconded as an Early Years advisory teacher for a while.....so whilst I'm not saying I know it all (no-one ever does), I've been around a bit I guess! For what it's worth, based on what I've seen, here goes, not in any particular order: our education system needs........

smaller classes for better individual attention and therefore, obviously, more teachers

more specialist teachers

high expectations of discipline and the notion that "respect has to be earned" turned on its head in schools. Respect for authority should be a pupil's DEFAULT position. Respect for their pupils should be a teacher's DEFAULT position. If either party behaves inappropriately, they can expect others to lose respect for them.

better provision for children with special needs. Inclusion shouldn't just mean a place at a mainstream school, it should mean plenty of additional help so that the child can access everything on offer and teachers aren't struggling to cope.

stop constant testing and churning out statistics and allow teachers to teach. Huge piles of filled-in forms and neat paperwork does not mean a teacher's necessarily any good, but it does mean that they're probably knackered and demoralised.

Much as I hate to say it, a lot of this boils down to money and therefore state sector funding BUT, good discipline costs nothing and if nobody's listening, it doesn't matter how good a teacher you are. (Spend money to do some of the above and discipline problems would decrease, granted)

Sorry for the rant, I'm just putting the "kick me" sign on my back as I press "enter".............

PottyLottie, thank you. Good to see a contribution from a professional.

Yes - comments from professionals are always helpful! This subject raises all kinds of personal prejudices and experiences, which is partly helpful but mostly not. The emotional stakes are raised because you individual child is involved and any parent would want the best. That's why people who can pay for education do so - often to their own detriment financially. Unfair comparisons are then made between sectors, as people seek to justify their choice one way or another. Teaching professionals do not help either, since often the hatred of independent schools and prejudice and sheer lack of knowledge clouds judgement. Most people think that money can solve it, but Labour's education mantra, with all the money thrown into education, shows it doesn't. Community values of respect, listening and desire to listen and learn with people is the way forward, and is cheap.

Well, I say PottyLotty for PM. Or Education Secretary

I would let rich parents who want to pay, pay. They always will. Improve state education so that it is comparable with the private sector. Reduce class sizes, improve standards of teaching, and pay and insist on more rigorous academic standards. There are many "Not well off" parents paying school fees to give their DC the chance of a better education. We are among them. We earn less then average salary (both work in music so not well paid) and have made the decision to pay for our DSs to go to an excellent private school. The option is not great. If it was we would be able to go on holiday. I know of others at our Prep school who are doing the same. One mum works in Sainsbury's on the till to keep her son in the school. Is it worth it? Well, yes considering our option. Is it fair? not really. However, the difference in the education is marked. That is all we are interested in, not social climbing, sport or extra curricular activities but the quality of the learning.

johnbunyan "... Community values of respect, listening and desire to listen and learn with people is the way forward, and is cheap...." yep. but clearly you have been watching too many Dixon of dock green episodes. have you been out into communities. have you seen how this has gone almost completely in a lot of areas. it might be cheap in your eyes but societal change is never cheap! and this is what you are asking for. a complete and utter reversal of society back to the days when policemen were respected and people helped their neighbours out, mowed their front lawns and picked rubbish to make their area look nice. We the people in their 50's and 60's+ have just sat back and let this happen. the rot has set in. you are right. not even money would get us out of this mess. its to do with peoples attitudes to rights with none of the responsibilities. how the heck you change that god only knows. not just through education though.

Vanillachocolate
I wanted to say thank you for your posts and for posting so much on this thread. It is fresh air to read your posts and I can sign under every one of them. It is such a relief to see there are people who can actually see things.

Your analysis of the situation is excellent. And the hypocrisy (or just hiding from how things are), and 'the better dead than red' non-desire to recognise and state the problems of this country, and the imperialism with which the myth of the 'Chinese rote learning' is repeated.. Even head of Maths at my DS school told me when I mentioned that I do maths with DS that 'maths is not only about calculation'. Yes, thank you very much your English honour, the rest of the world at your feet of course knows nothing about maths and if we ever attempt to do any maths we can only do rote learning...

I've also had arguments with happygardening before on mumsnet - where low ability gets equated with undifferentiated SEN and used as an excuse. I've also witnessed this with DS school - if the child doesn't achieve (because of no systematic teaching) - he is deemed low ability. Mother teaches him - tadam - in 4 months - high ability boy! Anyone in Finland, Poland would be scandalised by the use of the term ability on 6 yo! This sounds like eugenics! But here it is an accepted term - in the teaching profession!!!

How anyone can actually learn maths with these teaching methods is beyond me (judging on my DS primary school). I just teach him myself on my homecountry's textbook, and maths in his school looks like a joke - complete lack of systematicity, slow complexification, practice. Just scatter a few unrelated examples together... Anyway, I can talk about this for hours.

But one thing I wanted to ask. I suspect a real lack of Promethean Enlightment attitude in this country. Top independent schools want to produce laywers and bankers, not, for instance, scientists. I only so far have experience of the state education and so held my hopes that somewhere some actual education should be happening. This I thought was private. But maybe even there I wouldn't find what I am looking for, what do you think?
(Shall I actually move away?)