Igcse to gcse

[Lfs2126]

Are the syllabuses very different?is it possible to transfer from one to the other?

My dd2 changed from iGCSE to GCSE maths at the end of year 10 (reloaction). There were some differences IIRC - more stats in GCSE is one thing her teacher mentioned, but she'd done more of other things. I can't quite remember now - it was a couple of years ago, but she coped fine with the change.
Dd3 is doing iGCSE for sciences - the school changed this year and we were told it was because of the tinkering of the GCSEs last year. Tbh, they don't seem much different from what her sisters did, but then I don't take that much notice!

IGCSE maths is slightly different to GCSE, it has things like set theory and a bit of calculus.

There's been a hint from the government that in the future, IGCSE won't be counted in the league tables, forcing schools to take Gove's new GCSEs. Will be interesting to see if that happens as lots of schools moved to IGCSE to get away from the constant political meddling.

Thanks everyone. Plenty of food for thought.

The main difference with science iGCSEs are that they don't have an ISA (controlled assessment on practical work). 2 teachers I know at different local private schools said this is why they switched to iGCSE - the ISAs tended to bring the grades down for the GCSE.

and also were too much hassle and took time away from teaching the theory.

At my children's highly academic selective schools they switched from to IGCSE. They certainly didn't need to do that because the exams were easier.

It's worth saying that there is more than one IGCSE board for many subjects.

Fair enough although counterbalanced by me anecdotally knowing at least a few private and academies that do still include Shakespeare in their IGCSE syllabus.

State school pupils have to take the iGCSE options that are compatible with the National curriculum. Pupils in independent schools in the UK may have an additional option for some subjects since they do not have to conform with the NC. Therefore the syllabus covered by independent school pupils may not be the same.
There have recently been some changes in the iGCSE syllabus too so it is not true that it is staying the same and only GCSEs are changing.
You cannot enter pupils for both the iGCSE and GCSE exams in the same subjects and exam boards (this is known as a forbidden combination) so schools have to make a decision what type of exam to enter the pupils for in advance (entry date is usually March but it is possible for late entries). So am a bit about some schools preparing for both until April!

State school pupils have to take the iGCSE options that are compatible with the National curriculum.

Academies are not subject to the national curriculum. Two thirds of secondary schools are either academies or on course to be such. There are 1.8 million secondary pupils in academies. The national curriculum doesn't matter any more, as it only applies to a diminishing minority of pupils in KS4. I'll bet that the vast majority of the schools switching to the iGCSE in the past year or so are sponsored academies.

You cannot enter pupils for both the iGCSE and GCSE exams in the same subjects and exam boards

And the "first result is the only result for league tables" now applies within a session, so from the school's perspective whichever exam happened to have its exam first in the session would be the result for league tables purposes. Double-entry is, for practical purposes, over.

friday16
DCs school is a non sponsored academy converter and is using iGCSE to 'adjust' the C/D boundary pupils

Friday16 I am quoting from the CIE website which distinguishes 2 types of schools: "independent schools and state maintained schools".
The following quotes the number of schools now taking iGCSE exams: "Over 1300 schools in the UK are now teaching Cambridge IGCSE – 900 state and 400 independent." In the past only independent schools could enter pupils for iGCSE they were not open to state school pupils.
They are also popular with home-schooled candidates who cannot meet the ISA requirements for GCSEs.

I doubt any sane English department would teach a syllabus without Shakespeare. In fact, one of the things we like about IGCSE is it gives us the option of doing two Shakespeare plays rather than just one.

Talkin what a pity your school has to use manipulation of exams to give these pupils a better chance of passing their GCSE. I hope it turns out well for them.

what a pity your school has to use manipulation of exams to give these pupils a better chance

Surely, summerends, said academy is switching to the iGCSE in order to get the benefits of the additional breadth and rigour for which the iGCSE is known? You can't have it both ways: if independent schools are switching to it for high-minded reasons, why is it that you think state schools switching to it are engaged in "manipulation of exams"?

friday not sure I get you. Talkin has clearly said that her school switched to IGCSEs for the lower sets to improve the pass rate as they think they are easier, not to enhance the syllabus. That seems to me a rather sad approach to education (whatever type of school). Time will tell whether or not they are correct in surmising that the IGCSEs are relatively easier to pass and therefore this strategy works.

I have no direct experience concerning the relative difficulty between IGCSE and GCSE and so am mildly interested in unbiased information either way. It seems from the previous posts that most agree that the wording of the IGCSE questions is more straightforward to understand in at least some subjects.

Maths and Science IGCSE seem to require far more to be studied. My daughter wants possibly to do science A levels but is only taking double science IGCSE because the double award will cover more than double award GCSE, according to her science teachers. My son did things in Maths IGCSE which some of his GCSE friends did not study until this year in AS level.

A school near me is doing an IGCSE module for the bottom set maths in year 11. Depending on the results in the new year they will either then go on to do foundation or higher papers in the summer at GCSE. Does this sound logical? I've heard this from a parent who wasn't too sure on the details about her son.

Depends on how small the school is, Jodie. Bottom set at my school would always be entered for Foundation but we have 9 sets, so their target grades are E and below. In a bottom set at a smaller school there could well be students on the C/D borderline. As Foundation paper is capped at a C and you can get a C on the higher paper, the decision about which paper to enter a C/D candidate in order to best maximise their chances of getting a C is usually left till the last minute. Some do better on Foundation, where the questions are easier but you need to get 70-odd% for a C, some do better on Higher where you are faced with up to A* questions which you can't do, but only need around 25% for a C.

(Those percentages are roughly for GCSE but would probably be similar for IGCSE)

Sorry, jodie, I missed the bit where you said it was an IGCSE module, but GCSE entry in the summer.

That does sound weird, as the IGCSE module won't count towards GCSE.

There is a fair bit of misinformation on this thread about iGCSEs.

Many of the most selective schools use them...and it's not because they're easier...I mean, come on!!!!

Many of them originally chose them because they wanted to avoid the endless round of sitting units/resits/more units/controlled assessments that GCSEs were embroiled in.

Why? Because this system is very intrusive and makes years 10 and 11 a royal PITA. Also, because thgese schools believed that a terminal sitting of all GCSEs together shows ability. And yes, some tutors at many universities including Oxbridge agree with that.

Some super selection state schools (Colyton is one) understood this and acted accordingly.

Universities which make offers relying heavily on GCSE results (Oxford and Bristol spring to mind) have always given weight to terminal exams.

However, things are being evened up in this regard. No more units.

As for the content. Well they're not that far apart. I personally feel the content of the GCSE in English is slightly better, but the content on the iGCSE in Languages hugely better. A GCSE is terrible prep for an A level in MFL.

Abraid I'm in a funny situation where I have twins at different schools and one is doing all iGCSEs and one is doing just a couple (in MFL, where it's been introduced for the top set who might feasibly want to do an A level MFL).

The content is broadly similar in maths and science, each has bits the other doesn't IYSWIM.

What I would say about maths though, is that DS school makes it very clear that an A* is no indication of suitable ability for an A level and that the jump is very large. Ditto physics.

"Why? Because this system is very intrusive and makes years 10 and 11 a royal PITA."
I think you're right word this is one of the main reasons super selective use them. My DS1 (state comp) found the hours spent on controlled assessments especially in English exceedingly tedious and has frankly put him off the subject (which was sad becasue he's rather god at it) In fact the controlled assessments put him of all course work and he deliberately choose A levels which didn't do any.
My DS (yr 11) has already started and in one case already nearly finished the Pre U curriculum in many subjects and I think the lack of controlled assessments is one on the reasons why they can do this as they are not wasting time on them. I also find it hard to accept the math IGCE is easier his school only does Pre U math and its widely accepted to harder than A level (the equivalent grades to A level carry more UCAS points) especially further math Pre U so its not logical for them to do the IGCSE math because its easier.

I've also heard that the IGCSE MFL is a better preparation for Pre U/A level and the point I made about the Latin was made to me by a Latin teacher/tutor who teaches to CE to undergraduate level and doesn't work in a school that do IGCSE Latin and therefore has no axe to grind either way. In his view you cant "wing" IGCSE Latin and its hard to get an A*. To further back this up "bottom" set Latin at my DS's school apparently do GCSE Latin instead of IGCSE.

happy I can't tell you what a pain these controlled assessments are!

They completely change the flow of the term, and of course one has to organise family life around them (to a certain extent).

I shouldn't be surprised if any of the students never want to read another bloody war poem in their life!

And what these tests are actually testing is a conundrum. They're pretty easy to ace!

The IGCSE double award my two take/took is quite new, only examined for the first time last June. Can't remember the board, but it was tough.

French IGCSE is also tough, I agree!

I was hacked off that Eng Lit IGCSE did not include Shakespeare for my son. IGCSE is not perfect but to suggest that high performing schools need easier exams seems a bit odd.

Re the modules, I thought IGCSE was not modular and that was one of the points?

I'd never heard the term super selective before MN. But, I teach at one and we do IGCSE in English and the Sciences. Other departments are considering it.
It's been fantastic switching to no coursework and we have the time to study the texts properly. If only we could persuade other departments to switch so we wouldn't lose so many lessons to controlled assessment in other subjects it would be fab.