A'levels crisis - DD wants to drop an AS but school says..

[NigellasGuest]

.. that it means she won't get into uni and will have to go to a FE college. DD badly wants to go to Uni but is finding 4 subjects at AS too much and wants to drop French.
could it be that if she can't cope with 4 AS subjects then she's not university material anyway? I'm very confused plus upset because DD is so stressed and overwhelmed..

It's very normal for sixth formers to take 4 AS levels, then drop one at the beginning of A2s. In my DDs school, a few were allowed ot drop one AS level mid AS levels, but on the whole they were encouraged to finish all 4.

I can understand why the school are saying what they are, but it depends on what her 4AS levels are.

What subjects is she doing and what does she want to do at uni?

I'd also add that the majority of students find the change from GCSEs to AS levels quite a jump. They really have to work very hard.

How many subjects is she intending to take at A2?

she's doing French, Spanish, English Lit and Philosophy RE & Ethics. She is unsure what she wants to do at uni but seems to enjoy the English and Philosophy more than the foreign languages so will probably end up doing something humanities related.

It's not true that she won't be able to go to university without the fourth AS- although it is true that it may be more difficult.

Why does she want to drop French! Because she's made a mistake with choosing it? Because she doesn't like the teacher? Because she's not bright enough to cope with four?

If it is A. Or B. would she consider doing 3 A2s and a different AS next year?

Is it too late to change the french to something else. My dd changed RE to sharp intake of breath Media, because she was finding it all too much. She did do that in Oct though.

She went on to get into a top 20 uni to study Eng Lit.

It may be worth looking at the university entrance requirements and possibly even emailing them to get their view on whether 4 AS' are necessary?

I know in DDs school (she is year 12) that a few have dropped their 4th subject and quite a few have changed subjects.

Mine would have got better results if they had done three not four. Not many unis ask for the fourth (Warwick?) ... I'd contact the unis she's interested in and ask them. That said, two languages are strong and offers including languages tend to be lower in my experience.

I'd also add that the majority of students find the change from GCSEs to AS levels quite a jump. They really have to work very hard.

This. Try to persuade her to keep going. It would make a great comment in her Personal Statement to say how she overcame her problems through perseverance. She can still give up later if it doesn't work, but dropping it now will not give her the converse chance to pick it back up again.

Having said that, I knew someone (v clever) who found lots of languages a slog because they all wanted reams of vocab learning every week.

A small number of universities ask specifically for a fourth AS, but most don't. In general, higher grades in three subjects at AS will make for a stronger application than lower grades in four. So, AAAA would look stronger than AAA, but AAA is stronger than AABB, especially as one of the B subjects will usually be dropped.

The school's advice is just not correct at all, and it is worrying that they are misleading your daughter about the nature of university applications. From this point on, it would be a good idea to verify anything they say. A good website for this can be The Student Room. It is also a good idea to check things on university/the UCAS website if you can.

I would suggest your daughter looks up the entry requirements of some courses she might like to do at universities she might like to go to, and show her teachers that they will accept her without a fourth AS.

Agreeing with the others who say that you don't need four ASs. DS1 dropped one of his ASs partway through Y12. Hasn't made any difference to his ability to apply for university. Your DD's school is talking rubbish. It is very often better for a stressed pupil to drop one AS to concentrate on the other three and get better results for them. Stick to your/DD's guns!

thank you for the advice everybody. I wonder what the school's agenda is - or are they just badly informed?

Too late to change to something else - DD considered switching to Politics but was told they had covered too much ground for her to catch up. We thought the additional workload of being behind in a new subject that another group had been working at since september would just cause even more stress.

I will try and clarify about university entrance with 3 AS levels and 3 A levels. As I say, I don't understand why the school isn't more aware!

As far as I know all university offers are for three A levels.
I know several in my DS year at 6th form college dropped one of their 4 chosen subjects early on, however they were encouraged to make this decision within the first six weeks because, I believe, schools are judged adversely on drop out statistics.
It may be they are probably more concerned with their results than your DD?

aha thecat that does make sense doesn't it...

The school are talking rot. Having said that, your DD might just have lost confidence in her ability, which she could find again if she sticks with the subject for a little longer...
If she can stick it out, she could pick up some extra UCAS points, which just may get her onto a course. My DD did! She hated Economics with a vengeance and only got an E in her AS, but that gave her an extra 10 UCAS points...
However, if your DD is so stressed that it may cause her to mess up her other subjects or drop out of the 6th form, its just not worth those points.
If she does drop French, see if she can use the time constructively. Can she help in the Lower School with any subjects she enjoys? Could she assist with any productions/ projects that are going on? Not only will it mean that she has less time to get bored, she will accrue some useful experiences for her personal statement.

It will be to do with the new funding system, your dd needs to have a minimum number of taught hours over the year, and basically that is not achieve able in virtually any school without the students doing 4 AS levels. Without that the school do not get any funding to have her there.

Its a bit early to give up on the 4th AS - has she got weak GCSEs or is she just finding the step up to A level standard more difficult than she expected?

she got a B in all the subjects she's doing at AS, with the exception of RE/Philosophy&Ethics in which she got A. I think it's the step up that's the problem because she likes to coast along and is a bit of a last-minute merchant, which at AS doesn't cut the mustard of course.

DD has now given me an indication of the sort of degree she would like to do, (Eng.Lit and Philosophy) so I will get her to research where she would like to do the degree, and to find out entry requirements. We can then confront the school. I can't believe they would put their own interests above hers, in this way. actually I can
careers dragon that's a very good suggestion about using time constructively if she drops French. These personal statements are a whole new area that we will have to start thinking about some time so0n,,

Is it a language thing, or is Spanish going OK?

Also have DD1 yr12 struggling with French, although the odd subject in her mix that she should probably not have taken. Sounds similar to your DD in being a last minute merchant too.

All subjects a larg step up, but being told by school languages especially massive. Seems 19/40 can give a B on a GCSE paper, whereas same mark would give E at AS. First mock had half the class getting U's (DD included) after just 6 weeks, but was a whole past paper. Have 3 more mocks, expected to progressively improve. Interestingly, little correlation between GCSE grades and mock score, as so different.
DD currently determined not to drop it early, but already decided its the one she will drop at AS. Biggest issue seems to be the grammar, which she got away with not learning for GCSE. So we have got her a French tutor in the hope she can salvage an AS grade.

I thought that although Uni offers were generally based on 3 A2 predicted grades, if predictions slightly below, the AS grade could swing an offer?

Does your DDs school offer EPQ in yr12? If so, could she bargain wih teachers to take this instead?

My DD2 was not allowed to do A level French with a B at GCSE. The school said the jump was too great. Other DD did languages at A level but had to work hard after getting A*s in her two languages at GCSE. DD2 struggled with English Lit A level with an A at GCSE. I think your DD is just finding the gap rather larger than anticipated. I do know someone who went to Durham with 3 AS and not 4, but your DDs GCSE s are not stellar so what does she want to do after A levels? Doing 3 probably won't matter but is this really the problem?

We visited 6 or 7 school sixth forms last year (all comps, mainly outstanding) only 1 wanted an A in languages, all but one wanted an A in maths.
At DD1s 6th form the external students seem to b struggling more with French, regardless of GCSE grade. Seems this school taught GCSE to a better standard than most if the other local schools, preparing them more for the AS jump.

Nigellasguest Maybe its the workload of two essay subjects and two languages that are the issue?
I seem to remember reading in some of the prospectus, that more than one language not recommended unless wanting to take languages at Uni.

Has your DD changed schools for 6th form? How well do the teachers know her capabilities?

circular no, DD did not change school for 6th form but I don't really know how well the teachers know her capabilities - she was predicted better GCSE grades, with A* predicted in at least one subject.
Yes LittleSiouxie her GCSE results were certainly not stellar and were slightly disappointing, i don't know how much this indicates that she may not be suited to HE. She for one really wants to go to Uni.

Hi NigellasGuest,
You sound as if you're starting to doubt your DDs ability to go to uni. Relax a bit - it's not only stellar students that go to uni & get into graduate jobs afterwards. You can get into uni with 1 A level. I'll grant you that it's not going to be Russell Group, and it will be for a Foundation Degree (bit like an HND). Hopefully it won't come to that for her though!

There are also a shortage of graduates with languages, so if your DD were to combine say English/Business with Spanish either as a Joint degree or as Major/Minor degree, she would likely be in a very good place for graduate jobs. Interestingly, the British Council report on language demand in the future came out with Spanish at the top.
If you are interested in graduate options after various degree subjects, look at www.prospects.ac.uk either "Options with my subject", or "What Do Graduates Do?"

Does her school do a rough grade prediction at the start of year 12, based on GCSE grades? DDs school use ALPS to get preliminary target grades.

If your DD has target grades, worth a look here to see the kind of course and Uni she could go for with her expected grades.