School trip for G&T kids. I don't approve, but not sure what to do.

[PigOnRollerskates]

In the next 3 weeks DD (Y7) is going on 3 school trips. One is for whole year group to local big museum. Fine.

One is to panto for kids who have got the most reward slips. Again fine, although tough on those who just missed out. (she might miss out yet - she's making the cut at the moment but still 2 weeks to go)

Third is for kids identified as G&T. It's to another museum and is directly linked to the big humanities project that the whole year group are working on.

I have a real problem with this. Letters were publicly handed out in tutor groups to make it clear to all who weren't invited that it was because they weren't clever enough. DD and one of her best friends got a letter, their other best friend didn't. They are all in the same sets and have the same targets, so clearly it was a close call and based (I guess) on friend 3 getting slightly lower CAT scores.

Also of the kids I know who are going, they are all from families who take their kids to these museums anyway, and have tons of opportunities. The kids I know whose parents struggle financially or don't place much emphasis on these types of activities are not in the group (obviously this is not a co-incidence)

This is a mid-performing comprehensive school. I understand that DD is in the top 10% of this school, but probably wouldn't be in a more selective school or in another catchment area. I'm all for differentiation and making sure the brighter kids are getting stretched and reaching their potential, but special trips for G&T make me feel very uncomfortable.

DD agrees, and said she felt very awkward when the letters were handed out. She wants to go though, and I don't want to ban her from going based on my principles.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Would you raise it with the school? Is this a common thing now or OFSTED requirement?

I know the bottom 10% get extra funding and help, but what about the 80% in the middle? Is their education considered unimportant?

Sorry - rant over!

No, titchy- there are two separate museums involved. And the second one, the one the G&T contingent is going to is directly connected to a whole class project..............

Realise we've also all ignored the whole point of the OP's post!

She doesn't approve - she wasn't asking for opinions on whether or not that was right. She was asking what she should DO.

That's more tricky IMO. In Y7, and with a new-ish relationship with the school to build, I'd probably just grump about it and do nothing. Or bring it up at parents eve with specific reference to your DD.

My dd is set to be probably the higher end of average. But average none the less. If those below average get help and support and in some schools extra activities for the pp children who are identified on all these threads as being the ones in need. Then there absolutely should be something for the G&T kids.

As long as the middle aren't the forgotten average and there are trips and stuff the whole class go on then i don't see the problem. Yeah I'm sure it sucks for those higher end average kids who are borderline BUT it's bloody tough out there and those kids should be able to go far not held back because of the other children.

If it was a trip for SN, kids who speak English as a second language, I don't think people would complain. Why should g&t be any dufferent?

I do have a G&T kid, yes. She's G&T at music, and I was frustrated at the lack of extra provision for kids in that catetory. Take what you can get.

Brams, I wouldn't do anything.

Thanks Bramshott. Yes that's probably what I'll do. I'm good at spouting off on mumsnet, but I'm a bit of a wuss when it comes to actually banging my drum at school!

Opinions on whether I'm right or not are very welcome though. I'm curious as to why it sits so badly with me even though I'm all for DD getting stretched. I know she's a bright kid and I want her to reach her potential. I'm just pretty sure I'd be wholeheartedly opposed to this if she hadn't made it into the top 10% so it makes me feel a bit hypocritical to suddenly decide it's fine when my child is one who benefits.

And yes I am a wishy-washy Guardian-reading socialist and I suppose that does influence my thinking. That doesn't mean I'm all for mediocrity, it just means I don't like to feel that others are getting left behind for the sake of the elite.

I wouldn't do anything either. Extra help should t just be confined to those struggling. It's not righteous to have kids coasting and bored for fear of what people might think. The other kids parents won't be thinking about your G&T kids when they take their extras. They will be grabbing it with both hands.

I would go for a chat with the teacher or trip organiser and ask them specifically what the learning objectives are for the trip and just see what they say.

My DC's school arranged a workshop at a theatre in London for gifted, talented and passionate pupils. My sons English has slipped quite a bit since he has been on meds for epilepsy so I think he went as a 'passionate' pupil rather than gifted or talented. He really enjoyed the trip and all the activities and I was very impressed with the school for organizing it. In previous years he went on a Maths and a Geography trip ( he is very good at those subjects) and again I thought they were very good. The teacher asked him to share what he did on the Maths trip with the rest of the class. I don't have a problem with them.

Two of mine are g&t in one area and the other is dyslexic.

They all get (or got) the appropriate help.

I don't see a problem.

As the OP says it is not a co-incidence that the majority of the kids that are being offered the G and T trip probably have lots of opportunities already, so this is a case of the more they have the more they have the more they will be given. I don't doubt that some of these children are academically gifted but I also think that it is more often the case that any potential is already being realised and enhanced through advantageous backgrounds.

Trips aren't like extra academic activities they are seen as a treat to most children. It might have been better to take all children on the trip particularly as it was linked to a project they are all doing and to give the G and T group some extra task to stretch them.

Most parents would do as Rosencratnz suggests, they want to further their kid's education even if it seems selfish.

However IMO the school is wrong, it is a lazy and unfair way of ensuring G and T political criteria are met.

Of course you would be selfish. There's no room to be anything else these days. It's all very well denying your children things because it was a G&T trip and you didn't want to make it obvious or her friend didn't get to go. But really, in the future when the motivation for the effort has been crushed out of them for the sake of everyone else, do you think when they are stuck flipping burgers that they wil think "least those other kids felt better" ? No they will wish they had taken the opportunities when they had the chance. They won't see them again after school and would you deny your children the chances for a bunch of people they won't even remember in ten years time.

I have no objection at all to special activities for G&T children- but this was a trip that would have benefitted the whole class. I honestly can't see the justification, particularly as it was related to a whole class project.

I'm with OP on this one. G&T children should be catered for within the ordinary school day, by differentiating the classwork, homework, expecting more of them etc.

Not by doing the same work all day long (not saying they are in OPs school) and then tacking on a random trip which doesn't even relate to the subjects in which OPs DC is G&T, although if she scored high in the CATS and is generally conscientous, school might think she could do even better in this subject and might be trying to inspire her.

"others are getting left behind for the sake of the elite"

That's the whole point of being elite - if they were the same as everyone else, then they wouldn't be elite!

The others aren't getting left behind - the elite are being pushed on. The others are where they are supposed to be.

Yes of course G & T kids' work should be differentiated, the same as all other kids' work should be differentiated according to their ability.

But the principle of having extra activities aimed at academically G & T kids, sporty G & T kids, musically G & T kids etc is sound and should absolutely be supported by parents, particularly those of a Guardian-reading persuasion (I count myself as a Guardian-reading leftie too BTW), because it is precisely this sort of differentiation that comprehensives need to do to ensure they do actually successfully cater for all.

This particular trip may not have been particularly well thought out, it may have been better to have all kids going on this trip and have the G & T kids going on a different trip. I don't know (I suspect the OP doesn't actually know either) because I don't know what the learning outcomes of either trip are, or anything about the project work or how the two trips will tie in to the curriculum.

The OP's concern seemed to have been about the principle of identifying G & T kids and taking on what she saw as a fun day out though.

"Yes of course G & T kids' work should be differentiated, the same as all other kids' work should be differentiated according to their ability."

Of course it should! Nobody's saying it shouldn't!

But they shouldn't get extra "treats". Extra work, yes. Treats, no.

But theop doesn't know what the trips about. There could well be a work shop planned or a detailed tour or a specific event at the museum that day that wouldn't be suitable for all.

The trip ISN'T a treat!!!!! You may see it like that, but honestly and truly the teachers will not have planned a day out as a treat for the all clever kids. It's an educational activity designed to stretch the more able kids. At least that was it's designed to do, whether the reality bears that out remains to be seen.

If the panto trip was just for those on G & T I'd think that was appalling, but that's for everyone, as it should be.

Extra treats, no? Why?

In the real world, those who are better at their jobs get more pay. It's an incentive to perform better.

OP I can see you don't approve but I would just keep quiet and get on with it. Let her go on all the trips she is selected for and support the school by not arguing these points with them.

titchy you say it isn't a treat; so do you think the chosen ones children will not enjoy it?

chosen ones, or chosen children, not chosen ones children.

Obviously I was still thinking about the day out to Harry Potter World which was a G&T trip at DS school. Which I am sure they all found really hard work!