Russell Education Trust/Russell Group Universities

[strictlyfan2013]

Can anyone confirm if the Free School sponsor "Russell Education Trust" is linked to the Russell Group Universities please? Also, what does "State funded independent school" mean? In relation to Free Schools... Thanks!

daphnedill I'm assuming not all your points were directed at me?
I was answering a point brought up much earlier in the thread regarding whether qualified staff were employed.
I am more concerned why the government felt it appropriate to open a new secondary school in an area which had a surplus of places anyway. The previous school on the site was closed due to a surplus of places in the area but they felt it appropriate to allow another school to open anyway. My concerns is the impact it will have on the other 2 closest schools (educating Brentwood website covers this issue), not just from the falling numbers in these schools as the compete for too few children which results in a drop in funding, but also the disportionate funding that the free school received when being set up. If I had a DC at either Brentwood County High or Shenfield I would not be happy with the decision Gove made to allow this school to open.
There were other proposals for the site such as a studio school or UTC offering vocation education is this is rather lacking in this area.
Also, I have concerns whether a primary school head has suitable experience to run a secondary school, regardless of how 'good' he was at running the primary school.

I would think the science advisor is just that, a science advisor. They don't use the local government advisor (like state schools do). I imagine all the academy/free school chains are using their own advisors nowadays. Are they supposed to draft somebody in from outside?

Gosh- never thought I'd be defending Becket Keys.

Sorry, I meant lower.

"I would think the science advisor is just that, a science advisor. They don't use the local government advisor (like state schools do). I imagine all the academy/free school chains are using their own advisors nowadays. Are they supposed to draft somebody in from outside? "

Many LAs don't employ their own subject specialists any more .. they use consultants from companies like Education London on an as-needed basis.

W&G you appear to not understand the difference between 15.6 as the average number of pupils per member of staff, the staff-student ratio, and what you cited "average teaching hours of full-time secondary classroom teachers have fluctuated between 18.9 and 19.8 between 2003 and 2010", which is a completely unrelated number. If you really "don't know why there is a discrepancy between that and the figure you've highlighted.", when one number is pupils per teacher and one number is hours per teacher, then I wouldn't take seriously much else that you say.

" you appear to not understand the difference between 15.6 as the average number of pupils per member of staff, the staff-student ratio, and what you cited "average teaching hours of full-time secondary classroom teachers .... If you really "don't know why there is a discrepancy between that and the figure you've highlighted.", when one number is pupils per teacher and one number is hours per teacher, then I wouldn't take seriously much else that you say"

Or, stated slightly more politely, I've made a mistake and muddled my figures. The numbers I should have looked at in the report I linked to were the ones in figure 1.6, marked PTR. In 2011, that looks to be somewhere around 15.6, so the numbers do tally after all. Glad to clear that up.

It would still be useful to see an equivalent figure for just Year 7/8, since that's all Becket Keys has at the moment.

"but also the disportionate funding that the free school received when being set up"

Whathaveiforgottentoday, I'm not local to Brentwood, so I'm not going to comment on whether the school was needed or not, or whether it was the right choice in preference to a UTC. However, for the record, free schools get the same amount of "start up" funds as any other type of new school, for equipping classrooms, buying books etc. A UTC would have got the same.

Apart from those start-up funds, the amount provided per pupil for running the school once it is open is also the same as any other local school.

"Otherwise you're not comparing like with like .... It would still be useful to see an equivalent figure for just Year 7/8, since that's all Becket Keys has at the moment."

Something else worth considering. It's probable that Becket Keys has a disproportionate number of senior staff per pupil. For example, in an established school the costs of employing a Headteacher would normally be spread over the funding for 1000+ pupils. However, when there is only a Y7 and Y8, like at Becket Keys, the Headteacher is relatively more expensive. Nevertheless, the Headteacher probably spends more time actually teaching than in the average 1000+ pupil school.

Similarly, for assistant heads, subject leaders etc.

The point I'm making is that structurally a new school is quite different to an established school (whether its a free school or not), so is it valid to compare it with the average PTR figure?

Hmmm. I'm sure that freeschools do have preferential funding for the first 2 years on top of the start up costs, also that they are funded to pan regardless of whether full. Which Becket Keys wasn't in its first year. A grossly unfair system. And actually the fact that the school was not needed due to surplus places in the area is the main issue here. The issue of the head teacher probably teaching more is incredibly troubling as he has no experience of teaching secondary pupils. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, like many others locally.

My point on the funding is directly related to the opening of schools in areas that don't really need them.

I'm not really against free schools except that Gove seems to be putting his eggs all in one basket so areas that need new schools but don't have the parental support aren't getting new schools and areas like Brentwood that didn't need a school got one. It seems a silly policy.
I've got no opposition against opening a free school in a area that needs a new school, with the support of an organisation that knows what it is doing. RET does seem to be a sound educational organisation even if I don't agree with everything they did and have some concerns over transparency. I wouldn't worry about my DC going to Becket keys (although I don't agree with faith schools so that's never going to happen, but that's a whole different issue).

However, in Brentwood they closed one school which cost a considerable amount of money as you have to keep the staffing levels up to provide a suitable education and you do get left with more senior staff at the end which means it does cost more. I imagine when you start a school up, you have the same problems. Plus in Brentwood there is concern that due to the opening of Becket keys, another school's pupil number may drop so low that they end up closing - which is disruptive to the students in the school and costly. So, yes when the school is up and running with full numbers it will get the same funding but the whole process of closing, then opening another school has been very costly to the area - money which could have been spent in the other schools in the area.

My real complaint is with Gove as he seems obsessed at pushing ahead his agenda of free schools without really justifying in some cases.

"Hmmm. I'm sure that freeschools do have preferential funding for the first 2 years on top of the start up costs..."

Why are you sure? There is some information about free school funding here.

"also that they are funded to pan regardless of whether full."

No, they're not. The start-up grant does cover some of the disproportionate costs associated with needing a Head, caretaker, etc (as it would for a new maintained school). However, the funding for running costs are per-pupil.

When you submit a free-school proposal to the DfE you need a detailed financial plan that includes a sensitivity analysis to a 20% shortfall in pupils compared to the PAN. (See section G of this doc).

When Becket Keys was set up this was not the case. You might want to have a look at Educating Brentwood's site. It documents the process as it happened. I appreciate some policies have been improved since then. Incidentally, do you work for RET?

"When Becket Keys was set up this was not the case."

Yes, I know the policy has evolved with time, partly due to public criticism and scrutiny.

"Incidentally, do you work for RET?"
No, as I said earlier, I'm a parent who is working to set up a new school in another area, which is also sponsored by RET, so I work with them rather than for them.

I thought that was the case with Becket Keys too Wren2020, but couldn't remember whether I'd remembered the details correctly.

If i remember rightly, information was not very forthcoming from RET during the set up of Becket Keys.

"information was not very forthcoming from RET during the set up of Becket Keys"

That's clearly a theme of the Educating Brentwood blog ... the author poses lots of questions. At the time there weren't necessarily answers in the public domain, and he found that frustrating. I think the situation has evolved since then though. As I said before, some of RET's more recent schools have a lot more information on their websites, and our group certainly work hard to answer people's questions.

As I understand it Educating Brentwood is a group rather than one "author". I think it's entirely appropriate to ask questions where the spending of public money is concerned though and disappointing to see RET withdraw from the debate at the time. Anyway, if they have now conceded that greater transparency is required than that's a good thing.

"As I understand it Educating Brentwood is a group rather than one "author""
Possibly. The blog seemed to be written by a single author, but there may have been a wider group.

"I think it's entirely appropriate to ask questions where the spending of public money is concerned"
Yes, as I said earlier, I think reasonable answers should be expected to reasonable questions. However, I also think some critics are overly aggressive, and too inclined towards making unjustified accusations. That's counter-productive because they end up sending people into bunkers.

Greater transparency was definitely needed especially after their rather dubious choice of head teacher. I'm very interested to see how the school does over the next few years but what I've heard so far is all good, although the hormones haven't kicked in properly yet (only 7's and 8's) and we'll only really know once they've had a few years of gcse's.

I also think some critics are overly aggressive, and too inclined towards making unjustified accusations. Maybe on mumsnet but not on the educating brentwood site where the questions asked were justified. Whether the lack of information was the fault of RET or the government, mistakes were made and the questions were justified.

These new schools are going to be responsible for the education of 100's of children so getting it right and critics asking the questions is very important. The fact that RET have improved their transparency says they know they got it wrong in brentwood.
I still think it was the wrong decision to open Becket Keys in Brentwood and think in the long time it will be damaging to the area, regardless of whether the Becket Keys actually does well or not.

I'm not sure that unjustified accusations were made in this case. The stakes were high in that this school could have potentially caused an existing school to close. No-one would choose that for their child. The moment you stop answering questions you make yourself look as if you have something to hide. Such is the divisive nature of opening a free school in Brentwood. What I've heard so far certainly isn't' "all good"! People will make their choices and yes, the full picture is yet to be realised.

"These new schools are going to be responsible for the education of 100's of children so getting it right and critics asking the questions is very important. "

Yes, I'd agree with you on that. The Free School policy was introduced quickly, and has evolved quickly, with lots of controversy along the way. It'll be interesting to look back on its legacy in a few years time. However, it will inevitably create some successful schools, and I think the RET schools will count amongst those.

I was under the impression that the potential to cause an existing school to close is still very much a possibility but its still early days.

If you look on "about us" on Educating Brentwood there is info about its members. It's definitely a group.