understanding what's remarkable for GSCE

[Beauchamp]

Govt statistics always quote the number of children who get 5 or more A*-C grades in GSCE but is this normal i.e. if a school had a lot of children who didn't get this, would it indicate a problem with the teaching?

how much does a child need to get to have something to write home about? What about 9 or more A or A* grades?

Its all changed so much since my day, I just don't know how to interpret the numbers anymore.

kittie you should definitely give it a go - if you don't try, you'll never know.

Plus, Cambridge in particular pay little attention to GCSE results and rely more on AS scores. And they have a 'flag' system on their database to alert to special circumstances, which you clearly have. And neither Oxford nor Cambridge would reject a candidate on the basis of one indicator (eg GCSE scores) alone.

Thanks -- have to hope he wouldn't spend the interview, if any, under the piano.

His AS scores were pretty damn good (as in, 'dropped 2 marks across 3 physics papers', that sort of thing -- then came home and obsessed about the one question he thought he might have mucked up).

Sorry, Beauchamp, not fair to derail the thread. As you might have gathered, I too have a doubly 'interesting' child.

He has been very well served by a good comp with an outstanding SEN department, but I know they tend to be rare as hen's teeth. Is your son getting any help?

It's fair to say that the vast majority of (English) Oxbridge applicants will have bucketloads of A GCSEs. However that is NOT the same as saying you need to have bucketloads of A GCSEs to be offered a place.

For what it's worth, the reason why a few medicine courses demand high GCSEs is because they doesn't require BMAT or UKCAT, and increasingly that's the split: competitive courses either will ask for very good GCSEs or for a high mark on some aptitude test (BMAT, HAT, STEP, LCAT, etc, etc). This is happening rather stealthily, and it's yet another way that people in schools that don't have a history of sending pupils to selective universities are going to find doing so progressively harder. Preparation for the various ATs is pretty common in the indy/grammar world; not so much, I suspect, in urban comps.

His AS scores were pretty damn good (as in, 'dropped 2 marks across 3 physics papers', that sort of thing

In which case, it might be worth considering Cambridge (who look at, and use, the UMS scores at AS) rather than Oxford (for whom an AS grade A with 100 UMS is the same as an A with 81 UMS: they don't even ask for the UMS scores).

I agree to try cambridge. Oxford like good GCSsEs. Cambridge a tad more forgiving. But make A* offers of course.

Thanks all. Sounds like his school aren't just whistling in the wind then, as they've suggested Cambridge and not Oxford.

It just all seems a bit late in the day to me, as he's hardly been hothoused for years for it or spent ages brewing up a brilliant personal statement.

The academic stuff is just sort of something that trundles along in the background while he worries about things like having a conversation or reminding yourself to eat.

Cambridge likes very high AS marks but high UMS at AS level are not immaterial, whether they are low or high As at Oxford because anyone who has attained highly will have their UMS marks noted on the school reference for Oxford, even though Oxford, unlike Cambridge, does not specifically request them, so the interviewers will be aware.

Oxford has more entrance exams, which might or might not be a strength to play to. Cambridge is more explicit in stating that GCSEs are trumped by AS levels and they like to see progression.

Cambridge offers will almost certainly tend towards slightly higher A at A Level. It can be very easy to miss an A so the exams can feel very high stake. You cannot know for sure whether you will get the standard A*AA offer or a trickier one until you get the offer so it can be easier to miss, though mathematicians and scientists often seem to get awe inspiring results.

I think if he has additional needs, lots of the received wisdom goes out of the window anyway, as he will be viewed in context both In terms of his individual profile and in terms of the school he is coming from.

KittiesInsane - DS is at one of those comps (which by reputation at least) are as rare as hen's teeth.

The school does have a good record on exam results - that's been confirmed by the descriptions in this thread of make might be defined as good - and it has a fantastic SEN dept (according to Ofsted).

(Perhaps our children are at the same school?)

TBH I didn't even know that DS had a SEN at the time of application, I just thought that he was struggling with the appearance of his handwriting, and perhaps not writing enough to show all he knows. If I'd known last year that he'd hit more than a small obstacle and that he does, in fact, have a SEN, then I'd have perhaps taken some interest in the SEN department on the open day. So, its just incredible luck that he seems to have landed up in the right place.

He is also very intelligent and, so far, he has done very well at school (with his intelligence masking much of the effects of disability). However, from what I've read, the dysgraphia will hold him back more and more over the next few years.

The school will not accept private assessment reports so DS is on a waiting list for assessment by the SEN dept which should be done in the next few weeks. At the moment, i am waiting for that to happen and then to hear how the school will support DS. i have no idea of what they will do, or what is possible. All I have is the head of the SEN department's assurance that he'll be looked after.

Upthread someone said that there are lots of reasons why bright children don't achieve their potential. In DS's case, i can already think of one: DS is very aware of his difficulties and it has shaken his self confidence badly.

He's honestly not too worried about Oxbridge per se (bit of an other-worldly chap, my boy), but agrees that he might give it a shot. At least that means the high stakes might not bother him too much, I suppose.

Beauchamp, glad to hear your boy is at a school with a great SEN department!

kittie it is very late for a Cambridge application this year - they are due in on the 15th of this month and there is lots to do to choose a college etc! If your DS does want this, you need to start looking at the process right now!

and there is lots to do to choose a college etc

He could make an open application (one that doesn't specify a college), couldn't he?

He could friday but they're all different and suit different people. I dont know about physics ( or does he choose NatSci?) but some want the TSA, some don't, some want essays in advance, some don't. Some are old some are new. Some are far out some are close by the labs.

There are lot of criteria that matter to the majority of students and then if you're my DD you spend three full days there visiting them all!

Looking at it (when I should be working!) I think he needs to apply for deferred entry, and meanwhile get some relevant experience including cookery and do Further Maths at least to AS level -- that's an obvious hole at the moment and probably reflects his school's inexperience in advising Oxbridge candidates.

Though given he's not had Oxbridge in his sight for more than a week, I might be doing them an injustice here.

Oh dear.
Poor old DS has realised that actually, UCAS forms and Cambridge applications are quite serious stuff, and has had the mother of all meltdowns about it.

Plan B train to be a bus driver might have to swing into action.

Calm kittie! If you were already thinking of deferring for a year there will be no harm in taking a pause and applying post A level next year.

If your DS doesn't cope well with stress then concentrating just ion A levels this year would not be a bad thing, then he'd be in position to know his results when he applies - again a stress reducer.

And it's a good idea for engineering to fill in the further maths gaps ASAP - even if not for the application ( if he hasn't had access to FM at school, he wouldn't be denied a place) but for the tough maths in the first year.

Can I borrow you to sit in our house and make calming noises, Beck? It's so lovely to have a voice of reason.

Did you just guess he was applying for engineering rather than physics, or are you in fact his physics teacher in disguise?

DS is currently adamant that he needs to put in an application this year while he has the school's help in doing so, and so that it's 'off his mind' for the moment. But I suspect he and they are wrong and he'd be better putting the energy into getting the results and lining up some work experience.

If he does apply this year, it would be quite a gamble to drop any offers from elsewhere and re-apply post A-levels. Hmm.

Ooh, clever me! I just got it into my head it was engineering for no real good reason, as I see you didn't say that! And tbh I was probably thinking physics as a degree when I was making my FM comment as that's what my DS did and I know far more about that than engineering. So not quite so clever after all, it seems!

Calming noises I can do though - years of practice whilst I'm personally freaking out underneath. Have just started another round of calming noises here myself as DD2s form sent in this morning..........,