No school place AT ALL in my county. I have to apply to neighboring county

[gaba]

We moved into Hertfordshire, and applied to the county council for places for the two DCs, only to be told, nothing is available, please try Essex?

Their last school is over 30 miles away so it isn't an option, but I have four schools within walking distance from my new home. I had no idea things were this bad, I thought I would be given a choice!

I have spent weeks reading through miles of legislation and can find nothing that defines what a reasonable distance should be, or what exact rights to an education there actually are. (It is all very vague, there is little or no detail in the laws on this that I can find).

If anyone has experience with this sort of problem, I would really appreciate any help.

Is it really 2.5 hours from your house to the station?

See what MN does to me - I have even gone so far as to look at the distance from the absolute far reaches of Bishops Stortford to the railway station. Even on foot, from the absolute furthest residential street, it is 50 minutes (just under 2 miles - DS walks this kind of distance to school daily) . This is why i suspect that the OP's orignal post about the schools very close to her being central BS schools might not exactly ring true, if that distance / time to the station is also true.

BTW teacherwith2kids, what exactly are all these support staff doing?

I think maybe we just need a few more teachers and a few less lazy managers.

So I am glad that you have been appealing - how many schools have you appealed to? How many more are you appealing to? What have the results been so far?

I was assuming that you haven't appealed because you have never answered any questions about appeals, and have instead ranted about council staff and how you are 'patently waiting'.

I am glad that you HAVE bee appealing. When is the next one? How can MN help you? There are some great appeals experts here who have helped many others in similar situations - use them!

HmmAnOxfordComma

They are trying to get out of paying the transport costs right now. Its a bit of a legal grey area.

To be honest I don't think they care as it is not their money, and my problem is that even driving there would be a heavy commute for the kids.

So you have appealed for places at 27 schools and been rejected for every single one? Have you contacted the Daily Mail? THey would absolutely love your story and the fee may help to pay for private education pending the resolution of a state school place.

gaba sent me a personal message, so I know which school has been offered and I think she is right to refuse.

I've lived and worked in West Essex/East Hertfordshire/South Cambridgeshire for 30 years. There have been issues with Bishops Stortford school places for as long as I can remember. There was a time when Essex and Herts had a bilateral arrangement. There were places for Essex girls at Herts and Essex (in Hertfordshire) and places for Herts boys at Newport when it was still a boys' school. Since then BS High School has improved and Newport was forced by law to amend its admissions code. Birchwood has improved since it replaced Margaret Dane and Hadham Hall schools, but it's still considered as the Cinderella school.

You probably know that Herts County Council has stated that there is no shortage of secondary places in BS, which was one of the reasons the plans for an enlarged Herts & Essex/BS High were rejected a couple of years ago. The reason the schools are full is that they take Essex children in Year 7, which means late entrants (such as you) are without places. For some Essex children, the BS schools are the nearest and Herts and Essex actively touts for business to attract able girls.

I know the schools quite well and, if I were you, I would keep my name on the BS waiting lists and "remind" them every so often that you're still looking for a place. Then, I would seriously look at the Essex schools on your list. I doubt very much that there are places at Saffron Walden County High, although you would find it relatively easy to get a sixth form place and would be guaranteed one if your DCs went to Forest Hall. Have you approached Forest Hall, Newport and Helena Romanes about places? I know a little about the Hertford schools and I personally wouldn't hold out for one if I were offered a place at one of the Essex ones.

But if she refuses the place the council has no further obligation to find her a place. She can apply to and appeal all the other schools she would prefer but surely she should accept the given place in the meantime?

teacherwith2kids,

The problem for gabe is that there's quite a long walk to the station in BS and an equally long walk at the other end. I looked up the suggested route on the Herts County Council website and it does indeed state that the journey would take one and a half hours (therefore three hours return).

gabba Have you initiated formal appeal procedures for the schools you would like your DC to attend? It's a simple question. We are using the word appeal as a noun not a verb here.

WRT council staff - most council staff are very hard working.they are not, however, magicians.

There is no such thing as an 'entitled job'.

The 'self' in 'self entitled' is redundant.

Think of a doctor. Their job is to look after those people who come to them, according to all the usual procedures etc. They are not 'lazy' because they do not break the rules and operate on people when that is against the guidelines, or prescribe medicine to a neighbour at 12 midnight.

Council adissions staff - a small band, in general - again work within the procedures and rules that bound their jobs. One of those - the one that you do not seem to understand - is that they CANNOT offer a place in a school that is full UNLESS a parent appeals successfully. They are not 'lazy' in not offering a place that doesn't exist. they are doing their job correctly. Frustrating, but true.

Have you been donw the FAP route?

DoctrineofSpike,

As I wrote earlier, gabe told me which school it is - personally I wouldn't accept it. If she sends her children to an Essex school, she could remain on the waiting list at the others until something turns up. That's what I did when I couldn't get an in-county place for my own ds. I accepted a place in Cambridgeshire, but kept my name on the local place. I was lucky and a place came up within a term.

LEA staff who have supported me as a teacher, to answer a question, have, for example:

• provided architectural advice to ensure that my classroom ceiling didn't fall in (and how to extend the school to admit more children).
• provided enormous help and support with children with SEN - from providing physical aids to advisory teachers to overcoming cultural barriers to placing a schild in a special school. Many, many man hours per year, that one.
• revised the local admissions process completely, to make it fairer
• run payroll etc services and provided excellent ICT support for a small school

Multiply that by the umpteen schools, hundreds of teachers - many of whom will have received more help than I have - and thousands of pupils...

(Oh, and run the appeals process - but you will know that as you have been involved in that already)

Yes, it's a school with a bad reputation and I've done supply teaching there. It really would take her DCs three hours travel time a day. It's not worth it.

It's not the end of the story as far as Hertfordshire's responsibility is concerned. Gaba has the right to find a school with places in any county which is nearer than the school she has been offered - as we've been discussing, there are a number of Essex schools which might have places. Hertfordshire is obliged to approach the schools and negotiate places. They should also pay for travel, although it would probably be in the form of a pass for public transport. I'm not sure Forest Hall is more than three miles, so they might not pay, but they should pay for the other two.

teacherwith2kids,

All the schools gaba is considering are academies with very minimal LA involvement. Hertfordshire doesn't run its own payroll - SERCO does.

Hertfordshire lays out its school transport policy on its website.

It's clear they will pay if the nearest school which has a place is over 3 miles. If they are being difficult, does this mean there was a nearer offer before the one you currently hold.

And my question about appeals was intended to mean 'for how many schools have you launched the formal appeals process to attempt to overturn a rejected application?'

By the way, OP any chance of an acknowledgement or preferably an apology for your accusation that I had suggested "your kind" weren't welcome at local schools? It is one of the nastiest accusations I've faced and I would appreciate you retracting it.

Hertfordshire is obliged to approach the schools and negotiate places

No they aren't. They have made an offer. Legally that is all they have to do. They do not have to come up with another offer if the OP rejects the offer that has been made. However, if it is really 90 minutes each way the OP is entitled to argue that this is unreasonable and may be able to persuade an appeal panel to allow her child into a nearer school on that basis. An appeal is the correct way to approach this if the OP wants to get her child into one of her preferred schools. If she is willing to accept an Essex school the onus is on the OP to put in a fresh application naming the Essex schools she prefers. If she would prefer a Hertfordshire school that is nearer than the offered school she should enquire as to why the Fair Access Protocol has not been invoked.

Regarding travel, Hertfordshire is legally required to pay for transport if the school is more than 3 miles away by the shortest safe walking route provided there are no nearer schools with places available. So if the only school the OP has been offered is more than 3 miles away they must provide free transport.

prh

There IS no Hertfordshire school with places nearer than the one she has been offered. However, there are a number of Essex schools which are nearer. I haven't read the Hertfordshire policies in detail, but I know that when my ds couldn't get into the local primary school, I discovered that a an out-of-county school was nearer than the one I was being offered. I rang up the school, went for a tour and then informed my county (Essex) that I was refusing the place they had offered, because the other school was nearer. Essex did all the admissions stuff and arranged for my ds's taxi to and from school. I kept my name on the waiting list and was subsequently (after a term) offered a place at the school I had wanted at the beginning.

The OP's DCs aren't hard to place or vulnerable, so there is no reason that the Fair Access Protocol should be invoked.

The situation in BS is ridiculous. Lets all be clear it's not because the schools take local kids from towns and villages and now they are full. I live in bs and for work travel in and out of London and Chelmsford. There are children commuting to all 5 bs senior schools from London and Harlow - I see them on the train.

There are children being picked up by a school bus in the Essex villages even those nearer Chelmsford which has a 11plus system.

My ds goes to a bs primary it is a feeder school for 3 of the schools - we have no guarantee of a place in bs.

Apologies! Since 2013 you have to apply directly to out-of-county schools.

As of yet, the OP hasn't done an application naming any if the nearer Essex schools, has she? That would seem like a good next move, maybe after ringing the Essex schools or Essex LA to see what waiting lists are like.