No school place AT ALL in my county. I have to apply to neighboring county

[gaba]

We moved into Hertfordshire, and applied to the county council for places for the two DCs, only to be told, nothing is available, please try Essex?

Their last school is over 30 miles away so it isn't an option, but I have four schools within walking distance from my new home. I had no idea things were this bad, I thought I would be given a choice!

I have spent weeks reading through miles of legislation and can find nothing that defines what a reasonable distance should be, or what exact rights to an education there actually are. (It is all very vague, there is little or no detail in the laws on this that I can find).

If anyone has experience with this sort of problem, I would really appreciate any help.

Xoa,

That is (sadly for her children) the conclusion I have come to, too.

OP, by 'appealing', we do not mean it in the 'non-technical' sense - just as a synonym for 'asking'.

We mean the formal, well-established process of making formal appeals for school places, to be heard for each school by an independent appeals panel.

The web page to start from is:
www.hertsdirect.org/services/edlearn/appealpanels/inyrapp/

The following text from the 'Guide to Parents' may be helpful:
"In-year applications
Following unsuccessful in-year applications, parents wishing to be considered for any subsequent places that become avail
able at their preferred school(s) MUST specifically request to have their child’s name placed on the CI list for each school. For additional information please go to www.hertsdirect.org/admissions"

and

"In-Year Admission Appeals
If your child has been refused admission to a Foundation, VA, Trust school or an Academy and no alternative school has been
suggested, you should contact the Customer Service Centre on 0300 123 4043 or 0300 123 4041 text phone, to find out
which Community or VC schools in your area have available places. This might be in any one of the following instances:
•
You want to move your child from one school to another within
Hertfordshire and have been refused admission to the school you want
or
•
You have moved into the area and you have been refused admission to the school you want for your child because the school is full
or
•
Your child has a disability and you believe he or she has been unlawfully
refused a place at the school you want because of this
(Please see section 8
of this booklet).
These appeals must be heard within 30 school days of being lodged but we will try to arrange them sooner wherever possible. We
must receive your completed appeal form within 12 school days of you receiving it."

OP, you have had well over 30 school days since you moved and were told that the schools that you wanted were full, so if your appeals had been lodged correctly within the 12 day deadline, they could all have been heard by now.

But surely the above doesn't apply? What grounds would she have for a successful appeal?

We don't know how likely successful appeal might be. It would all come down to balance of prejudice.

But if you don't try, you definitely can't win.

By the way...

All potential Hercules Poirots take note...

A random address in Thorley (Bishop's Stortford) to Sheredes in Hoddesdon is 24.5 miles according to AA Route Planner (not 15 miles).

Bishop's Stortford High School is 1.1 miles from the station, so if the OP lives a 15 minutes' walk from the school, it is very likely that the walk would take over 30 minutes.

The train from Bishop's Stortford to Broxbourne takes from 20-24 minutes.

Broxbourne Station to Sheredes is 1.5 miles, so a 20-30 minutes' walk.

Allowing a few minutes at the station to make sure the train isn't missed adds up to about one and half hours.

I can't believe the vitriol on this thread!

meditrina,

Have you ever been to an appeal and suffered the stress they cause? And then still lost, even though the balance of prejudice is definitely on your side? I have and it's not something I would recommend without caution, especially as the OP doesn't have a good case.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a "I went to appeal and lost" club in Bishop's Stortford. It's that kind of place; school admissions have been a shambles for ages, caused by being on the county border, laws which state people have a right to choice and backdoor selection by at least two of the schools in Bishop's Stortford. I certainly didn't realise how shambolic they were until I heard various stories from other people. As somebody earlier stated, even those with DCs transferring into Year 7 aren't guaranteed a place, in spite of Hertfordshire claiming that there ARE enough places in Bishop's Stortford. There were plans to provide extra places, but the planning permission was refused a couple of years ago.

If OP does not want to appeal because she thinks it will be too stressful, then the waiting list will be her only option.

The law does not state a right to 'choice', only the right to express a preference.

Those who have evidence of 'back door selection' need to get on to the ombudsman.

Without an appeal, or invoking the FAP, there are no ways of making a full school create a place, and for whatever reason the schools ARE full. Appealing may be demoralising but it gives the OP a chance at least.

Campaigning to change admission criteria may be worthwhile longer term but the education is needed right now!

If the OP posted for advice on any appeal, I'm sure the appeal could then be made as strong as possible. No guarantees but certainly gives her a shot.

Not really the point, but daphne a random address on Thorley to Sheredes school is 16 miles not 24.

The walk/train/walk journey of about 1 hour, as laid out by daphnedill (and very similar to other posters) is rather different from the 7-9 forms of public transport taking 3 hours as described by OP.

daphne, I think you'll find people were very sympathetic at first, but that the OP has been very, umm, vitriolic towards a lot of people on it.

She is in a very difficult position, I agree. Part of it is her own making - she moved house without having any idea which school her GCSE aged son would go to! I mean, just WOW!

But then, she has alleged that the reason she cannot get acceptable (to her) places at schools for her DSs is because of corruption and laziness amongst council staff and school admissions staff. She has insulted people like PRH74Bridge, who is unfailingly helpful on these threads.

You can't believe the "vitriol"? I'm amazed people have put up with her for so long!

Incidentally, Broxbourne Station is 1.1 miles from Sheredes School - 20 mins walk. If the OP lives 1.1 miles from the train station, she could drive her DC to it, if she is concerned about the walk. They could ride bikes to the staion, or possibly catch a bus, if that is not possible.

I understand that she feels the school is unacceptable. But the local authority only have an obligation to find a school place. And they have done that. So now, it's up to her.

It's 24 miles on AA RoutePlanner, Fanny. I assume that the OP isn't proposing to drive across fields.

I doubt if the OP lives 1.1 miles from the train station. The SCHOOL is 1.1 miles from the train station. The school itself is about a mile from the train station. I actually did that walk today (by coincidence) and it took me 40 minutes.

Yes, that's what I used.

I use that train route twice a week and there are restrictions on bikes.

No bike rack at the station? There is at ours.

Oops! Getting confused here. Bishop's Stortford High School is 1.1 miles from Bishop's Stortford High School. If the OP lives in Thorley (and I don't know she does), it's at least another mile in addition to the 1.1 miles.

I expect there is a bike rack, but that's not much help at the other end.

The LA has offered spaces at the nearest school with places.

If OP wants a nearer school she can
(A) appeal
(B) see if it is possible to invoke FAP
(C) apply to schools in Essex that might be nearer

and during A, B or C, either accept the places offered or home ed, if she accepts the places she could definitely make a case for paid for transport, and throughout ensure she is on the CI list at all schools of interest.

Daphne, have I missed anything that you think the council or OP can do?

So the boys ride to the station - 10 or 20 mins, depending on the distance, have a 20 min train journey and a 20 min walk at the other end. Possibly 10 mins waiting for a train. That's certainly do-able.

I get that she doesn't want that school. Lots of people have no choice but to send their DC there, but her DC are too precious to go there? Pity she didn't think of that when she moved without having any idea of what schools might be offered to her GCSE aged son!

I can see where the discrepancy in distance comes from. My random address was in North East Bishop's Stortford and AA RoutePLanner takes drivers round the by pass, on to the A120 and down the A10 - which is, incidentally, the quickest route.

My point is that people were very quick to call the OP a liar with no proof. I don't know exactly where she lives and 30 miles is probably an exaggeration, but it's almost certainly nearer that than the 15 miles suggested.

By the way, I've come across plenty of council employees who would benefit from attending a course on customer care. Most people in the OP's situation would be frustrated and angry, especially when they don't understand the system. Well trained frontline staff understand that. When I was in the same boat, I felt exactly the same as the OP. I moved from an area where admissions weren't a problem. People went to the local school or the next one if that was full and all of them were OK, so there wasn't a big problem. I'd read about problems, but didn't realise how bad things were. I could see my local primary school from my house, but couldn't get my DS in because over half the places were taken with out-of-county pupils. The next nearest school with places was over five miles away. In the past, the school used to try and keep two places a year for in-year admissions and was prepared to accept over 30 in KS2 classes. The law on admissions and the new head changed that.

The OP has been given some good (and bad) advice and hopefully she's followed up on it. I still don't see the reason for the vitriol.

Daphne
Googlemaps route planner has two routes of 15 miles. One is down the a414.
I said above my ds walks from broxbourne station to sheredes school in 15 minutes but he is a fit 6ft 18 year old but it is still doable in 20 mins.
There are very few schools in Hertfordshire closer anyway. If you look at the map nearly all the closest schools arevin Ware Hertford or Hoddesdon the distances are all very similar. I think there is only one school between those and Bs. All tje closer schools are in Essex

The only vitriol in this thread has come from the OP who has called council employees a number of things, including lazy, corrupt, self entitled (sic). She also accused people who o jetted to her vilification of an entire class of workers in this country of being council workers (Im certainly not a council worker. Nor, I guess, is teacherwith2kids. Or anyone else here probably.

The nearest school with places was an Essex school 9 miles away, and OP mentioned this right up at the start of the thread (back in early September). It seems the contact with LA over this school was not by offer letter and formal refusal, but something else amounting to the same thing - vacancies at nearest school were not accepted.

As OP told LA this school was unacceptable (ie turning down the vacant places) LA went beyond their legal duty and found another school with vacancies. This offer was end Sept or early Oct, and OP has yet to respond.

Sheredes, at about 14 miles away is not her nearest school with a vacancy (that is the school located in Essex) so that is why there is no entitlement to free transport.

OP does know what an appeal is, as she said in her second post that she was starting them, and was hoping to find a clause that would guarantee an even closer school. Despite being asked several times, she hasn't said any more about the progress of these appeals.