Is it usual to need a grade A GCSE to do A level maths now?

[Jella2u]

Disappointment here too. Son has got 10 GCSE's grade A-C. So what's the prob? You have no prob! Yes I do!!!
He got a grade B, yes that's right, B for Bertie for Maths. The school (which is a comprehensive turned Academy ) will let him do his Physics, Chemistry and Biology, but not Maths for which they say a Grade A is required unless you've clocked up a total of 224 points between the last 2 module papers. Unfortunately his tally was 205. Husband went up suited and booted to the school this morning to plead son's case. Phoned us this afternoon - no go. Have said this to all who got a B. So nothing personal there.
Have tried to contact other schools this afternoon. Needless to say all are shut. Local Authority very helpful and recommended emailing. Are schools running a clearing system that I don't know about? Do tell.
School did offer Statistics as a replacement this morning, but by this afternoon that was off the menu as no-one wants to do it. There are 7 pupils in this maths grade B situation who want to do A level Maths. Strangely the school says Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Maths are the most difficult subjects. So they might be for most people, but what if your child is the one that has had to struggle with French, Music, English Language and bid their time to do the supposed hard four?
We feel he needs A level maths to support science subjects.
Unfortunately, I said we would be back with an answer as to taking up a place with some sort of substitute for Maths before term starts. Every chance if I can't get something sorted fast he will be a well educated NEET!!!
All ideas welcome. Thanks in advance.

Wuldric - If your DS is woeful at English, Medicine or Vet Science is probably not an option! These are SO competitive and poor English results will not help one little bit.

OP - Interestingly, stats produced recently show Maths A level with the highest number of A and A grades of ANY subject listed! Maths is not hard - if you have a brain the absorbs maths and gets it and many of the candidates are clearly very good at Maths!!! It is these people any DC who is average at Maths will be competing agasinst for university places. So many science courses will ask for A or A Maths and Further Maths too. The A*s awarded for French A level are almost non existent, however! So which subject is more difficult? What is difficult to some is easier to others. We were never advised that Biology was difficult, by the way.

Bruffin unfortunately resources get a bit thin on the ground when you get to Further Maths. Googling the individual topics might be more fruitful.

If you want videos, the Khan Academy probably has some decent ones. If his school is registered with the Further Maths Support Network (free) they'll have a teacher password for loads of teaching resources, maybe they could print some out?

When it gets a bit closer to exam time, the Further Maths online seminars are very good
www.furthermaths.org.uk/onlinerevision.php

Does your DS know about Wolfram Alpha for checking tricky integration answers and so on? Invaluable for self-study.
E.g. m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integrate+sin+x+dx+from+x%3D0+to+pi&lk=3
Or
m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin%28x%29&x=0&y=0

Black I thought it was Further Maths that gets the most A*s and As? Hence Further Maths is the easiest A-level.

I thought the most recent table said Maths. However, I stand to be corrected. Whichever one it is, it still points to the fact that for the mathematically minded, Maths is the easiest A level to get at the highest grades!

Or that Maths is self-selecting in a way other subjects aren't and so only people who are good at it do it to A2.

I wanted to add something along those lines to the thread, BlackMogul - about the perceived difficulty of certain subjects. In 'my day' (just over 20 years ago) the subjects in which it was statistically the most difficult to get a grade A were English and, I think, History. I haven't looked to see how that compares now. I think more people got top grades for maths and sciences but also more people failed or got Es in those subject - I'm sure it's easier to do badly at maths if you don't 'get' it than at English (where you can pick up some basic themes to regurgitate/waffle about - and that is my subject so I'm allowed to be that rude!), if that makes sense?

So of course a 'difficult' subject just means difficult for some people and not so much for others.

I do think, though, that (like MFLS), it's not much that the jump from GCSE to A level is massive (and it seems that it is) but almost like it's a completely new subject at A level and so the teachers really are the ones best placed to decide if a dc is a suitable candidate, based on things like whether they really 'get' algebra (I'm not a mathematician; forgive the simplicity of my argument).

This thread and the other one about sciences at A level do leave me wondering if GCSEs are still fit for purpose when they leave people so ill-prepared for higher study and slightly ill-informed about aptitude for particular subjects. (And I know they're changing and we don't yet know how.)

black

www.bstubbs.co.uk/a-lev.htm

Maths got 16.8% A* and 26.2% A
Further Maths got 28% A* and 28.5% A

English was 6.2 and 14.5.

I agree that if you're really good at maths it's easy to get top grades in, I didn't even revise for my maths A-level, and worked much harder for my A in Physics.
However, from teaching maths I know that sort of ability isn't that common, and I have taught many who have got an A (not so many an A*) who have ability but also worked their socks off.

Dont know whether to laugh or cry. DD is taking French A level too.

Just a thought, but would an OU Maths Foundation course be better suited for the OPs son? I did one years ago, and it started just below GCSE level, and finished just above A level IIRC. I already had A level from school, but had not done any maths for 16 years.
May also be possible to do over 2 years, and perhaps just take 3 A levels at school?

A very interesting post is made by Ames here. She apparently graduated from MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) and does very well in maths, however has to count on fingers due to Discalculia [sorry Ames if I am oversimplifying or misunderstanding] . This illustrates the point that a learning style or a hidden special need could influence apparent attainment in conventional circumstances, but this attainment could be totally transformed with the correct adjustments to address the learning style.

Possible jobs for sciency people without A'Level maths (and my knowledge is out of date, so check!)

Pharmacy, Biology, healthcare related fields, I'd say chemistry, but others seem to think there was lots of maths. I'd disagree, but then I'm one of those A grade A'level mathematicians. A chem degree can lead to loads of labs / research jobs.

Lots of Science degrees go into law.

Banking and accounting are also popular, but tend to attract the strong mathematicians.

Environmental sciences is gaining in popularity

I'm on of those who was never considered bright at school, as my writing was awful, spelling even worse. Essays were a battle.
I've got 5 A'levels and 2 degrees. Think my old french teacher would have fallen through the floor if she saw all those certificates!

You're wrong about accountancy - or at least, very few areas of accountancy require superior maths skills. Communication skills are much more important and those at the top of the profession tend to have degrees in subjects like history, politics etc rather than maths. Maths graduates tend to go more for actuarial careers anyway, but those that opt for accountancy often find it rather more difficult to progress than they had anticipated. Maths A level is always looked on with favour but people need other skillsets too.

I should have said communication and analytical skills in my last post.

"In 'my day' (just over 20 years ago) the subjects in which it was statistically the most difficult to get a grade A were English and, I think, History."

That's interesting, OxfordComma - it absolutely chimes with my experience back in the late 80s. English was much more effort than maths, even though I am definitely more inclined that way (got the same result for both but I'd say put in twice the work for English - bloody Josef Conrad . . .).

Never met.a highly mathematical accountant. Numerate certainly, but not the same thing.

Patent attorneys are primarily scientists, although language skills desirable too. Not sure how mathematical they need to be.

Would have though environmental science may require Geography?
Geography A level sits well with sciences and leaves more options open.

Accountants generally don't do very complex maths - it is mostly adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing plus being able to calculate %. Potentially you might come across compound interest rates etc, but a B grade at GCSE is probably sufficient.

Update.

Two emails passed between Teachers and copied to me. Son now down for Sociology and Criminality with his three sciences. No questions asked as to why choice, though in fairness son due to see Teacher on first day back. Bum on seat. Money from Council. Son not NEETed by default due to exam results coming through so late and schools opening next week.

Husband laughing. Me laughing at the silliness of it all. Middle son giving a wry look. (He is 25 and has no tolerance at all of soft courses). Go upstairs to tell our student and joke with him "Let's hope you're a sociologist and not a criminal." I know. Not very original.
And then it happens:
"It would be better to do maths. It's easier", he says.
What can I say. There is no support we can give him with Sociology and Criminality other that watching reality programmes and every support we could have given him with maths.

All goes quiet. House plunged into that same gloomy atmosphere of Results Day.

In our bedroom Husband has quite a lot to say about the teaching of maths and I blame myself for not pulling son from maths. I should have taught him maths myself from the start of secondary never mind the outstanding sticker slapped on the place.

Anyway I have banned Husband and myself from 6th Form Introductory Evening. Son does not want to go anyway, he has something else lined up. Why stand with all the other parents and students? We don't feel happy, happy, glory, glory. As it is the school invariably emails presentations to you. No. Avoid the place.

Positive head on.
Still working away on book C1, but as Mechanics Book arriving soon have thought more about LaVolcan's valued view on Page 11, 27th August. Others too have pointed out to concentrate on Mechanics. Shame there isn't a stand alone course for that in the way there is for statistics, but guess there would be severe difficulty in finding anyone to teach it.

Wish this advice had been around when I was choosing my A levels (many moons ago), despite getting a A in GCSE maths I got an E at the end of the first year (just before they introduced AS levels), had an A in GCSE physics and failed it. Dropped both and managed to do English A level in a year. Fine, but I wish so much someone had explained that big jump to me - I got straight A and A* at GCSE and was very open to doing any subject really, wish very much I'd done English, geography, art and Spanish from the word go

Jellua C1 and C2 are assumed knowledge for M1, he will need to be able to differentiate and integrate before tackling some of it.

Noblegiraffe. No problem will do. Many thanks for advice.

I have to ask, Jellua, was the B in maths a total shock? From the way you post about results day, it sounds like it was. But I can't understand that you wouldn't have at least had an inkling it was coming from predicted grades and his previous two module results.

Jella, if your DS already feels Sociology is going to be hard, "harder" than maths, where he got a B, have you considered dropping Sociology and telling the school that you are going to be doing maths independently? You are effectively setting out to do 5 A levels. Based on your last post, Sociology is likely to be a black hole rather than an easy filler.

There is no support we can give him with Sociology and Criminality other that watching reality programmes and every support we could have given him with maths.

That is a defeatist attitude. Bright, educated parents are capable of helping with most subjects. If you actually mean to give this subject a fair go, then download the syllabus, past papers and mark schemes and buy the text books. Read the relevant sections of the textbooks as your DS meets them and engage him in conversation over the dinner table. Check that the whole syllabus has been covered. Review marked work and practice papers against the mark schemes. Identify links between the course material and current affairs on the news and in newspapers.

But that's fine if you don't want to. Just remember that if he gets an E or puts in a lacklustre performance and appears not to have made any effort during the course it may impact on the reference given for his UCAS application.

Sorry, my last post sounded a bit pointed. But I would like to know how this situation was arrived at because we have had similar at my school and I would like to know how to communicate better with parents. At the moment the onus is really on the students/parents to ask us if A-level is appropriate for them, we don't send the message out to those we don't want applying!

Thought I could get son up to the 224 mark qualifier between units 2 and 3 to meet school's entry criteria, but missed by 19 marks. Nearly did it, expected to do it, but not quite. Loads of times "Have you done this (topic)?" and "What do you think Mum." Should have pulled him. No use blaming the student. There was some good teaching, but not enough of it. I might add son said he was only required to manipulate one formula in physics exam - he could have actually done more. We'd cracked formula manipulation in a big way at home, though I have no complaints over physics teaching. That has always been very good.

Anyway, we're not having problems just now with the C1 Book. The difficulty will be next week when the other A level courses appear. Even if he doesn't take the AS or A level my son will have the maths to support physics in particular. On that I am determined.

People seem to think son is being forced into Engineering. I am not a professional writer and I now see I need to learn how to get tone into sentences. I tried to put over an idea "of his father went down the pit and I suppose son will too", when referring to following father and eldest brother into Engineering. Clearly I failed. My son does have freedom of choice. However some of the naysayers will turn anything. Mention the gym and we're running a military regime!!

Football finishing any mo - extra time. Mention of football. OMG that'll have the naysayers at it again!!! Enjoying a glass of wine - no doubt we're all alcoholics!!!