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Secondary education

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Original poster

Is it usual to need a grade A GCSE to do A level maths now?

435 replies

Jella2u · 23/08/2013 16:59

Disappointment here too. Son has got 10 GCSE's grade A-C. So what's the prob? You have no prob! Yes I do!!!
He got a grade B, yes that's right, B for Bertie for Maths. The school (which is a comprehensive turned Academy ) will let him do his Physics, Chemistry and Biology, but not Maths for which they say a Grade A is required unless you've clocked up a total of 224 points between the last 2 module papers. Unfortunately his tally was 205. Husband went up suited and booted to the school this morning to plead son's case. Phoned us this afternoon - no go. Have said this to all who got a B. So nothing personal there.
Have tried to contact other schools this afternoon. Needless to say all are shut. Local Authority very helpful and recommended emailing. Are schools running a clearing system that I don't know about? Do tell.
School did offer Statistics as a replacement this morning, but by this afternoon that was off the menu as no-one wants to do it. There are 7 pupils in this maths grade B situation who want to do A level Maths. Strangely the school says Chemistry, Physics, Biology and Maths are the most difficult subjects. So they might be for most people, but what if your child is the one that has had to struggle with French, Music, English Language and bid their time to do the supposed hard four?
We feel he needs A level maths to support science subjects.
Unfortunately, I said we would be back with an answer as to taking up a place with some sort of substitute for Maths before term starts. Every chance if I can't get something sorted fast he will be a well educated NEET!!!
All ideas welcome. Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
HisMum4now · 27/08/2013 12:57

Are 4 A-level subjects compulsory?

Sparklegeek · 27/08/2013 13:01

HisMum I think at most schools they have to take 4 to AS level then can drop one & carry 3 subjects on for the full A-level.

cricketballs · 27/08/2013 18:43

about the issue that you need A Level maths if you are to study physics/engineering etc.......I completed 2 years of a physics degree after qualifying as an electronics engineer (dropped out of degree due to personal reasons) and I don't have a maths qualification higher than C grade GCSE (certainly nether studied it beyond GCSE). Whilst yes I had to learn quadratic equations and had to apply maths there was never a pre-requisite to have a higher maths qualification or to study maths further

SubliminalMassaging · 27/08/2013 18:48

There is an ENORMOUS difference between the standard required to get an A at GCSE and the standard required to get even a C at A level, in almost all subjects. A levels really do up the ante and the pressure is huge. If the school requires an A at GCSE it is because they genuinely believe that someone who cannot get an A will not cope with the rigours of A level in Maths.

LaVolcan · 27/08/2013 19:55

Not sure about only needing a GCSEin maths now for engineering cricketballs - my son needed an A level in the subject, although I don't think the Pure Maths part was necessarily the best preparation. The RG university where my son went to will let you do engineering without A level maths, but you need to do an extra foundation year - which is when they teach the maths, I believe.

HarumScarum · 27/08/2013 20:40

Whilst yes I had to learn quadratic equations and had to apply maths

Aren't quadratic equations covered at GCSE? Shock

breatheslowly · 27/08/2013 21:07

Cricketballs - I think this must vary from university to university. I certainly had to have an A level in Maths for my degree, as did DH. And both of our courses contained mathematical content well beyond quadratic equations and applying C grade GCSE maths. Presumably there is a sliding scale of Maths requirements from C grade at GCSE to A grade at A level and potentially Further Maths too. So in some ways it depends on which universities he is aiming at.

noblegiraffe · 27/08/2013 21:22

somewhere I can only echo the advice given by hells. CGP book, and mymaths. On mymaths, on the left hand menu there is a link to "Booster Packs". The D to C booster packs should give him plenty of practice. If he has an individual login on top of the school login, he can use the worksheets in the booster packs to see where his weak areas are and to track his progress. If he finds them too tough to start with, he could try the next set down (6 boosters I think).

Harum yes, quadratic equations are covered at GCSE! :)

Original poster
Jella2u · 27/08/2013 21:34

I had not intended to come back as it's heads down here. No difficulties today as the start of Chapter One is just GCSE work.

Assumptions have been made about the Year 6 SATS results. Prevailing conditions do matter.

The Primary school that son attended went from Ofsted inspection "Good" to bask in the Ofsted rating "Satisfactory".

The school concentrated hard on getting Level 4's. Part of the trouble was that staff and pupils worked in a very noisey building site as millions of pounds were spent expanding and joining the Infants and Junior schools to provide a Children's Centre at the former Infants school. A very large car park was provided for the additional staff by reducing playground space. That together with the just adequately sized classrooms meant that the design of the whole site had become great for sardines.
I did not blame the Year 6 Teacher in the Ofsted questionnaire. She was like the goalkeeper picking up the mistakes of others at the end of the match. The poor woman was ill after it all and had a lot of time off and the last I heard she wasn't back at teaching.

You'll have noticed that we are trying to maneuver around what the Secondary are offering so they must be doing something right, though not quite what we want. Travelling and settling in to a new school were also major concerns as well as the loss of time.

I have no difficulties with anyone treating me as an Aunt Sally, but when it touches on my son naturally I feel defensive. Perhaps I am being too sensitive about this.

OP posts:
HarumScarum · 27/08/2013 21:51

Oh good, noble. I am pleased to hear it. As I am very old, I am not really au fait with GCSEs!

Nats71 · 27/08/2013 21:52

Please look into Oxford Open learning. My daughter used them for some of her IGCSEs. I can highly recommend if the school isn't playing ball! In a similar situation and considering them for A level maths.

Hendricksandcucumber · 27/08/2013 22:22

Jella, I don't think you're being too sensitive, I think you're being unrealistic.

I'm coming to this late but I think the point lots of people are trying to make is that if your son was cut out to do well at A Level Maths those obstacles (which I don't really think are that unusual...) wouldn't have stopped him getting a level 5 or even a 6 in Year 6. It's those kids who will get the A*/A/B at A Level Maths.

Getting 10 A-C GCSEs means he's above average, but not by a huge amount. What subjects did he get A's in? Perhaps he could take those for A Level? Or what about A Level Use of Maths

I don't know much about it but the blurb mentions it'd be useful for engineering. If you're teaching him at home you wouldn't be constrained to what the school offer.

Boosiehs · 27/08/2013 22:59

To be controversial, I was rubbish at t year 6 level. However by GCSE I was top of the class.

There is totally room or children to hange between primary and GCSE

LaVolcan · 27/08/2013 23:22

Use of Maths sounds just the sort of qualification which would suit him and the other seven who didn't get the necessary A. Does the school offer it?

Probably not, so it won't help him.

somewhereoverthewaterfall · 27/08/2013 23:48

noble thanks so much for that, helpful to know what to look for on my maths, usually just leave DS to do what he has been given for homework and never thought to use at revision!

breatheslowly · 27/08/2013 23:58

Use of Maths doesn't seem to cover mechanics, which is normally a useful overlap with Physics and plays a part I engineering. It is also not necessarily acceptable in place of Maths A Level or indeed as anything other than the 'third' A Level.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8143060.stm

ask.sheffield.ac.uk/help/applicants/useofmaths - Sheffield as an example.

LaVolcan · 28/08/2013 00:16

So taking Sheffield again as the example he could use it for B Eng Materials with Engineering but not for Aerospace Engineering.

It depends on what area of engineering interest him.

circular · 28/08/2013 07:13

i have a question - It may well get answered on the A level Physics thread I started, (initially about differences across exam boards) but note there is a wealth of Maths knowledge on this thread.

Most schools we saw for 6th form (including DDs choice) only offered S1 with AS Maths in yr12, with no option to do M1 until A2, unless taking further maths. Will C1 and C2 alone give enough maths background for A level Physics? Or is it done like this to encourage "serious" physics students to take FM, or at least continue to A2.
Given the choice, DD would much prefer M1 to S1.

noblegiraffe · 28/08/2013 07:38

We do S1 in Y12 and M1 in Y13. Some of the content (cumulative frequency graphs etc) we don't want them to have time to forget from GCSE and the binomial distribution is also in C2 so fits together.

Also the students seem to find S1 easier than M1, so we give the weaker students the best chance of getting a decent AS.

Our decision has nothing to do with encouraging students into further maths or supporting physics A-level. Science have to do their own thing, but they don't require maths to do physics in my school, so that's their lookout!

JGBMum · 28/08/2013 09:21

At DS school you are able to take physics without maths, but it's strongly advised that you should do maths as well. However, if you do take maths and physics, then you need to take the mechanics modules.
Despite being a fairly small sixth frm, and only about 20~ students taking maths each year, the department offers S1,M1 & D1 (for FM students).

Then S2, S3, M2 & M3 in year 13. I think we might be very lucky judging by the last few comments here.

circular · 28/08/2013 09:22

Thanks Noble her new school sounds similar.
So the Maths is never exactly going to support the Physics, but Uni options cut if Maths dropped at AS or not taken.

Can I just ask, out of curiousity, what topic do you generally start with for C1?

MysteriousHamster · 28/08/2013 09:53

Does your son want to be an engineer, or is it just something the children in your family are encouraged to do because of his father's work?

It's not a terrible idea to teach him maths outside of school, because he'll need it if he does go on to be an engineer - but what if he might prefer to do something else entirely?

frogspoon · 28/08/2013 12:50

I got an A* very easily at GCSE Maths, but only got a B in A level maths (10 marks off an A grr)

A level maths is hard! Someone who got a B at GCSE would maybe get a D at A level, even with additional help. But if it's what he really wants to do there's no harm in having a go, as long as it doesn't impact on his other studies.

noblegiraffe · 28/08/2013 15:42

circular we share classes at A-level so one teacher will start Polynomials, with manipulating algebra, expanding, factorising and solving quadratics. The other teacher starts co-ordinate geometry, equations of straight lines, co-ordinates of midpoints, line length and so on. After a couple of weeks of that we give them a test on what has been covered and any that do dismally are asked to leave the course. If they can't get to grips with the easy stuff, it's best that they switch subjects while they still can.

HisMum4now · 28/08/2013 15:44

If something is hard, it doesn't necessarily means DC will only get a D or that they should drop it.
Jella is acting on her conviction that her DS is capable scientist and mathematician but his maths education suffered since primary school. She is prepared to remedy this by tutoring him intensively herself. She may feel engineering career is most suited to her DS set of strengths. Don't MNers tend to agree that they as parents have the best insight into their DC?