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Secondary education

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Original poster

Are grammar schools better for above average children?

233 replies

celticclan · 16/07/2013 21:24

I'm talking about your bog standard Grammar in somewhere such as Bucks not Kent (not super-selective schools). Are they better for the top 30% than comprehensive schools? In what way?

I'm personally not keen on the Grammar school system but lots of people are and I'm interested to find out why.

OP posts:
RussiansOnTheSpree · 20/07/2013 08:48

Also - it's a bit harsh saying a DC only got into a school due to being young in the year. That's the sort of bitter thing that parents of kids who didnt get in say.

curlew · 20/07/2013 08:51

"One of their DCs got into grammar only because he was (a) young in the school year and (b) male"

What make should think this?

curlew · 20/07/2013 08:52

"What makes you think this?" is what I meant to say.

xylem8 · 21/07/2013 18:24

Usually there is an adjustment for age, not sure about for gender though-I wouldn't have thought that was legal!

tiggytape · 21/07/2013 18:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Talkinpeace · 21/07/2013 18:51

I rest my case

curlew · 21/07/2013 19:12

In the 50s, the 11+ pass mark was higher for girls because it was assumed that boys mature later, and were therefore at a disadvantage!

Fairdene · 21/07/2013 21:51

Multiple choice tests favour boys, so in co-ed schools with more multiple choice tests than not, boys will have an advantage.

Talkinpeace · 21/07/2013 22:05

fairdene
link please

exoticfruits · 21/07/2013 22:19

No- if there are no grammar schools they are all in the top sets of the comprehensive.

Fairdene · 21/07/2013 22:19

Link to what? It's well known. It forms part of the re-think about the 11+ tests.

Fairdene · 21/07/2013 22:21

On the whole boys do mature later curlew.

curlew · 21/07/2013 22:22

Well,bid it's that well known, there'll be loads of solid research you can link to, surely?

Fairdene · 21/07/2013 22:23

And young in the school year is piffle. The adjustment is enough to make the marking fair but certainly not enough to make a summer born baby pass or an autumn born baby fail.

Fairdene · 21/07/2013 22:25

The research is out there for sure but I've never had the need to have it to hand. I'm happy to accept it as fact, given those who've told me it as fact.

curlew · 21/07/2013 22:30

I've just tried to find some- and haven't, on a first search, been able to. It certainly doesn't apply in the bit of Kent I live in, where the gender balance of the pass rate reflects the gender balance of the people who take the test.

ArgyMargy · 21/07/2013 22:32

What is a super selective school please?

curlew · 21/07/2013 22:33

"And young in the school year is piffle. The adjustment is enough to make the marking fair but certainly not enough to make a summer born baby pass or an autumn born baby fail."

How does this work? One mark can mean the difference between passing or failing. So a summer born could get through on a score where an autumn born wouldn't.

Fairdene · 21/07/2013 22:48

Given the standard developmental differences, no, the adjustment would be fair: autumn baby needs to score higher, since it should. That's not hard to compute.

LadyTaylor · 22/07/2013 00:15

Wonderful grammar schools in Northern Ireland, achieving top results!

Theas18 · 22/07/2013 07:15

argymargy a superselective is one that ranks students in order and fills from the top of the list down. The " pass mark" ie the mark at or above which kids are admitted varies year on year depending on the cohort .

"standard" grammar schools set a % mark above which kids get in I understand.

curlew · 22/07/2013 07:38

LadyTaylor- how are the secondary moderns?

RussiansOnTheSpree · 22/07/2013 07:58

A superselective has no catchment area.

gazzalw · 22/07/2013 08:15

Superselectives also tend to cream off the top 5 - 10% rather than the top 20% that other grammars do

RussiansOnTheSpree · 22/07/2013 08:21

Gazz they don't claim that though (I agree it's probably true). Ultimately, catchment area or no catchment area, geography and transport links will play a role. If you're a very brainy kid in south west London with wealthy parents, you are more likely to end up a Pauline or Paulina than at Tiffins. So how superselective is Tiffins really? Actually, since one if the Tiffins schools has introduced a sort if catchment area, I guess it can't properly be described as a SS anymore anyway.