Can 'teach first' really be doing this?

[Cathpot]

In our department at the moment is a very pleasant 21 year old who is on the teach first programme and doing some sort of research project for a week or so. She has a good degree and has signed up to the teach first programme to get into teaching. This summer she will get 6 weeks of training in how to teach, using I think at some point some summer school kids, then in September will be dropped into a difficult school (no choice of where to go) on a 2 year contract.

She is enthusiatic and bright and seems very keen and when I was talking to her I had to kept reminding myself not to look too shocked. She is going to stand up and teach her first proper class to her first proper group of probably very tricky teenagers on her first day in the job. This seems insane to me- how can this be working? How is this ok for her or the kids in her class? I am all for cutting down the college aspect of teacher training and getting students out into schools to work out how to do the job but it seem self evident that the PGCE year is essential to producing teachers who won't get eaten alive in tricky class rooms. She told me some schools have as many as 5 teachers from teach first at any one time and that if they dont stay on at the end of 2 years they just replace them with a new one. I can't really get past how insane this seems as an idea.

manic - all credit to you for sticking with it.

I admire all (good) teachers ... for their teaching ability, not their qualifications. I've got a degree in physics, and would love to be able to teach, but I just don't have the personality or resilience for it. That's why I'm in governance instead :-)

TheBeautiful - it's obvious because it goes on the application form along with other qualifications. Schools are fully aware of degree classification and when and where someone trained.

manic - great post

EvilTwins - do you think it happens that decision makers (I'm unusure who makes the decision as to whether to hire someone) are arse-guarding? So that a well-educated candidate (someone with a 2:1 from Durham and then a Durham PGCE for example) gets rejected in favour of someone from the interviewer's ex-poly (or equivalent) and a less impressive educational profile?

I think teacher recruitment should be centralised. Perhaps it is though.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, BeautifulVisit, but what do you actually know about state schools? My knowledge is from being a parent of a child at one and formerly a school governor, so nothing like as in depth as a teacher's. From this, however, I believe that it's the governing body that makes appointments.

60 years ago when my mum finished her training as a primary school teacher in Scotland, she simply wrote to the local school board or whatever it was called to tell them she was about to qualify and from what I can make out they wrote back and said 'Report to School X on such and such a date'. Baby boom years.

I think it's more complex than that. In a teaching interview, a candidate has to teach as well as do the face to face interviews. At the application stage, I would imagine that a HT would go for the candidate with a) the best educational credentials and b) the most relevant experience. If the candidate is an NQT, then education would be important, plus the personal statement and the way in which the candidate addresses the job spec. At interview, the teaching is important, as is the way the candidate performs in the various interviews.

I have never applied for a job and not been invited to interview - perhaps my A Level results and degree can account for that. Since my first teaching job (which was my 4th interview I think) I have never applied for a job and not got it.

AllMimsy - I mean this in the nicest possible way, but why are you asking me what I actually know about state schools?

EvilTwins - I'm pleased to hear it. But who is the arbiter of who gets the job? Is it the head?

On the panel that interviewed me was the head, a member of slt, a governor and the head of maths. Also involved in selection was the maths teacher who observed the lesson I taught. In other schools, a student panel may be involved as well.

I think it's inconceivable in those circumstances that the decision could be based purely on where the HT went to uni. They aren't even involved in who gets shortlisted at my school.

Because you said you didn't know who appointed teachers and wondered if it was already centralised. I was surprised by that, frankly, and also by the idea that really bright people might be passed over because of defensiveness from the interviewers. All the schools I have had anything to do with have been falling over themselves to get the best candidates. Maybe you meant who decides who gets onto initial teacher training, but even then several people on this thread have described how they were selected for that.

We Rejected a Cambridge candidate in favour of quite frankly a better teacher from a different uni.

beautiful - what is your involvement with schools....?

I'm not sure Beautiful should be taken seriously since she said she'd be happy for her children to be taught by Meryl.

Thanks for that Monday morning giggle Noble...Amen!

Noble giraffe - There was nothing wrong with Meryl's teaching. The fault was entirely with the ill disciplined children she was attempting to teach. My children are bright and well-disciplined and would have no difficulty appreciating Meryl's teaching. She just had to learn crowd control sadly.

Merryl - not just crowd control.

I thought her behaviour with the gymnast she was mentoring was a bit off. Far too informal and wanting to please.

I thought the Science teacher at Crown Woods probably had the best classroom manner. A pity she alienated the Queen Bee pupil at the start, but easily done and she did manage to turn it around.

Re interviews and who gets to decide. In my area, governors choose the HT but, speaking as a gov, we would sit in on interviews for staff and advise but it's the HT who makes the final decision. The views of the HoD probably carry most weight.

Astonishing that you have judged there was nothing wrong with Meryl's teaching despite the series showing very little. Those that did see her teach judged her cause for concern.'
I expect you thought there was nothing wrong with Claudenia's teaching either, and that her group were just ill-disciplined too. Yet when she was observed it was apparent that a major problem was the class didn't understand what they were supposed to be doing. Despite her being a 'top graduate'

Noble giraffe - perhaps it was her crowd control that gave cause for concern. It seems to be a big part of teaching in some schools.

Who was the science teacher at Crown Woods? Wasn't that Claudenia. I thought Claudenia was rather shouty. And of the TF teachers on the program I would have least liked her to be my children's subject teacher.

I thought Nicholas was the best and he left after just one year. Shame.

community.tes.co.uk/tom_bennett/b/weblog/archive/2014/01/28/how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-meryl-tough-young-teachers-mid-week-special.aspx

Interesting reading.

Beautiful, you are speculating that if her behaviour management wasn't all over the shop, her teaching would be fine. We never really saw her teach so I've no idea what you are basing that upon, apart from maybe blind support for Teach First. She might be fine, she might be like Claudenia, or the lad who taught business BTEC who struggled to break their instructions down so that the kids could understand them. That doesn't mean they won't eventually be good, it means they need support with planning and teaching. Support that a PGCE student would find it easier to access. FGS Claudenia had to ask another trainee to observe her to figure out her issues.

Noble - you need to read the link from the TES above.

And is it correct then that different state schools have different recruitment policies? Wouldn't it be more sensible for all teachers to be recruited by a County panel? They could then be registered as approved and then free to apply to schools in that County. Much less scope for peculiarities and abuse of power.

I did read the link from the TES, it was all about how Meryl should have been supported in her behaviour management. I entirely agree that the support she received was inadequate and have commented on that elsewhere on MN.

But we still didn't see Meryl teach. We didn't really see any of them teach. We saw them interacting with problem pupils etc, but we didn't really see them explaining a tricky topic to a class, questioning the pupils, or bringing along their understanding. I'd have liked to have seen the maths teacher teaching, out of professional curiosity :)

Noble giraffe - ah OK. So you're not saying Meryl's a crap teacher then. I didn't see anything on that prog that made her a crap teacher.

I went to a state school and our history teacher was a really shit teacher though kept good control of the class (he was also a god friend of my father) and as a consequence I know no history. It's a gaping hole in my basic knowledge. Versus geography where the teacher was superb although sometimes lost control of the class. In spite of not having studied geography since O level, I could still sketch a good diagram of an ox-bow lake, describe the Triassic, Jurassic & Cretaceous cliffs on the Jurassic coast. I remember his lessons almost verbatim. Good teaching does make such a big difference.

I'd be a shit teacher.

Good friend.