There's a "culture of low expectation" in secondary schools. Do you agree?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello. You may have seen/heard on the news today that Ofsted is warning that thousands of bright secondary-school-age children are being "systematically failed" at school.

And we'd like to know what you think about this.

Ofsted says there is a culture of low expectations in England's non-selective secondaries - meaning that, according to a new Ofsted report, more than a quarter (27%) of pupils who achieved the highest results in primary school fail to achieve at least a B grade in both their English and their Maths GCSE.

The most academically able, says Ofsted chief inspector Sir Michael Wilshaw, arrive "bright-eyed and bushy-tailed" from primary school, but things start "to go wrong very early. They tread water. They mark time. They do stuff they've already done in primary school. They find work too easy and they are not being sufficiently challenged."

Do you think this is a fair reflection of life at secondary school? Do you think your child's secondary school has a low expectation of its pupils/your child? Does/did your child "tread water" in Year 7? Do you wish secondary schools did more to challenge their more academically able pupils?

Please do tell!

wordfactory
www.bstubbs.co.uk/gcse.htm
3.4% nationally

DCs school is 300 kids per year - that is 9 A* and the rest of the top two sets getting an A

you need to check your maths before being so dismissive about kids at non selective schools

Ah but Aris first you're talking about now.

Some of the older teachers won't be that qualified, will they?

And second, it depends where in the country you live. In some areas you struggle to recruit good teachers!

We could then go back to the old days, when adults relaxed a bit while smoking fags, drinking gin and discussing Schopenhauer and why anyone would ever want to make their own Battenburg cake. And yer know, laughing a bit. Instead of endlessly fretting and obsessing over grades and house prices in catchment to the best schools. Ugh.

Ideally we would as well Aris but the choice just isn't always there. I work in a lovely secondary school, 11-18, about a thousand on roll, nice rural location, good behaviour. We aren't particularly close to any major training providers, perhaps that's why we don't tend to get our pick? Not sure.

If a teacher could not get an A* at their subject at A Level never mind GCSE they should not be teaching.

Apart from anything else, how on earth would you provide model answers and how would you mark work?

I am not saying that teachers are of the same academic calibre as doctors. Generally speaking I do not think they are, but an A* in their subject at GCSE and A Level - or an A if you are old like me and a 2:1 is the minimum you should expect.

So talking you don't think there's a problem then?

All comprehensives serve their bright pupils well?

IME Laqueen that is exactly how comprehensive schools are staffed.

I think that if schools struggle to attract top staff they should be able to pay more. I think perhaps paying teachers more may raise standards.

I did not go into teaching originally because of the pay.

Aris I'm a governor of a school who don't get anyhting like those type of applicants [envious emoticon]

I'm joining you behind the sofa, la!

My subject is English. Children are taught similes, metaphors, alliteration and personification to death. Of Mice and Men is wheeled out regardless of the ability of the class, because the teacher feels safe and comfortable teaching it. Other literary techniques, critical analysis, longer, more challenging texts are often - not always - avoided.

These produce Cs but they do those who deserve more a huge disservice and I think that is a shame.

My A Levels were AAB (back in the olden days) and I got a 2:1 from Warwick. Can I have a pay rise please?

This describes my secondary school experience exactly.

No evil but you can have a job at the school where I'm a governor

I teach history, we have a department of 5. Two of us have firsts and I think we all went to RG universities. One of us went to Oxbridge.

Within the Humanities faculty, which I know less well, I think there are about 6 of us with 1sts.

We have an Oxbridge team who coach our Oxbridge applicants, I think there is at least one representative from all of our faculties.

Cool. I'm on my way.

Evil, we're recruiting now!

Aris, that's great, but in my experience is not at all typical of a typical department in a secondary school. I have a First from a RG (hate how snobbish that makes me sound) but I am often surprised at how basic teachers' subject knowledge is. It isn't just that they often don't know some things but there is a reluctance to find out. Too often, 'stretch and challenge' means 'provide extra work' when in fact it should mean engaging with ideas, principles and concepts we wouldn't expect a 'typical' twelve or fourteen year old to understand, but it is not enough to just provide the concept. The teacher has to teach it - but in my experience many cannot.

That is sad, we are close to some well regarded training providers, maybe that is why we manage to recruit them.

If there's a culture of low expectancy, who the fuck is getting all these A*s they keep moaning about them?

Make your bloody mind up

What Eliot said.

Yes, I do think that makes a difference.

We're also a department with little movement in it; I am the youngest and the newest member of staff and I'm not particularly young!

My colleagues are good teachers. They can teach students to get Cs, even Bs. But beyond that, they do struggle.

They are not good teachers then.

I think you're all missing the point. If pupils really want tolerance even a mediocre teacher can get them through school and gcses and a levels.

For some reason in this country swathes of teenagers don't want to learn - that is where the culture of under achievement problem lies!

To learn, not tolerance - damn you auto correct!

I don't think it's as simple as that, Aris. They are competent, they plan, assess, deliver. They get results to a degree. But, they most definitely have a comfort zone and the higher end is absolutely not in it.