Who can afford private schools in the UK?

[wjchoihk]

Hi. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question to ask here. But I have always wondered how rich you should be to send children to private schools in UK. Fees are anywhere from 3000 up to 10000 per term. Even allowing for wide gaps in income, thinking of 'avearge' UK wage of 26,000 pound, math simply don't add up for a normal life with such high fees. I also know only 7% of children go private though.

How much of private parents live on "inherited" wealth and how much on simply superior current earnings? I have my kids at SW London privates but I wouldn't be able to afford this without current int'l expat package. Some parents at my kids' schools LOOK and ARE very very rich but most of them LOOK quite down to earth. But I can't ask....

But you seem to be saying that all journalists who write articles about private education only do so because they're poor relative to their own parents, and unreasonably embittered - because they chose not to make big money and to spend their time instead.... writing 'endless bloody articles'? Do you not think some of them might actually be able to see the unfairness of a system, despite having personally gained from it, and be making genuine arguments in which they believe, rather than just out of chippiness?

No I'm not on about them.

I mean those articles about 'look how poor we are.' The ones who write books about 'austerity measures'. Or go on and on about glamping in Cornwall.

IME the folk who turn their back on their advantage are few and far between. Most of em simply can't afford to replicate it...and it wasn't meant to be that way!

Some people make a lot of money in the arts world. Like absolutely any field, to be successful in the arts requires commercial nous and a head for business.

Cross posted above!

Absolutely, bollocks articles by really rather well-off people pretending to economise etc are tiresome.

Mostly those articles are written by spoiled brats who didn't ever wake up to the fact that they were going to need to do a real job if they wanted a reasonable standard of living. Their public whining about why they aren't as rich as they were as children is grossly distasteful.

whatever Nit.

By the way, don't post that you are going to virtual ignore someone AND then spend several posts rehashing the same points. It kind of make you sound like seeker. Hmmmm.

Sure Bonsoir - its just a lot less likely. I tell my kids that the money I make from writing is highly unusual. Most writers need several income streams. Wheras in DHs field its highly likely you will make a lot of dosh. Kids need information - the rest is up to them.

YY, to the starting salary thing. Trainee lawyers easily start on best part of 40k, (so that's uni plus 1 or 2 years postgrad study) then straight after qualification (ie after 2 years of training contract) shoot up to nearly 70 plus, more if they're in big US firms over here. 100k would be a pittance to anyone relatively senior in city law. Partners would be on many times that. As soon as people qualify, they get a marketing call from Coutts. They do very well. And there's quite a lot of them.

DP's nephew works in the media. The competition for positions like his is such that his employer can demand Firsts from RG unis and not have to pay a commensurate salary.

So yes the nephew had an expensive education and no, he can't afford to put his DCs through the private system but he is happier in his job than many of us highly paid corporate drones.

So the irony is kind if lost on him.

True dat Woozle. But they really really graft for it. Another thing you have to be straight with your kids about.

If there are people outraged that they can't afford to give their children the private education they had, it just sums up to me this idea of privilege being a magnet for more privilege. With obvious exceptions (before I get the anecdotes about the coal mining grandfather who worked 36 hours a day to send his child to Eton) the more privilege you are born with the more you attract through your life. And by privilege I don't mean money. I mean social and cultural capital.

regarding bank of mum and dad and grandparents paying for private school....is the irony lost on them that their children went through the private school system and yet came out of it not being able to pay for private school fees for their own kids?

Well, I suppose it's ironic if you consider the sole point of education and school life to be one's earning potential in later life, and nothing to do, say, with what you actually learn for learning's sake, or learning and/or being exposed to things that open up career paths that might be very rewarding but not super well paid.

I'd also say that cases where this has happened have more to with the fact that private school fees have gone up by about a zillion% in the last decads or so, which means that many privately education people who earn (allowing for inflation) the same or even more than their parents, can't afford private fees themselves. Most people I went to school with didn't have super-rich parents in the city, they were doing jobs that NO WAY now would be able to fund the fees.

And isn't it also ironic that anti-private people think that's ironic when privately educated people can't afford private fees, thereby tacitly admitting that they actually think that private education generally leads to greater earning potential?

Is starting salary hugely relevant? Most professionals, in my experience, work for a decade before having children. That's the salary that pays school fees and nursery fees.

It's not unreasonable to assume that a professional couple might be earning a joint income of 100k having worked for a decade. That salary might not cover 3 children simultaneously at eton, but it would cover a couple of children going private at secondary with some planning and saving.

word by the time they get anywhere near applying for vac schemes it's pretty clear to any of the half-way intelligent ones that they'll have to work hard for the money. It's not a well kept secret. I think it's fair to say that the salaries are very high compared to many other hard work occupations.

I am slightly lost in the layers of potential irony!

The funny thing is, whatever our views, we can probably all agree that the short answer to the OP is: 'the fairly well-off'. But then immediately you get the issue of those who could but don't, which leads to the question of how many of those who think they couldn't could if they tried, which leads to how much it is worth trying or worthy to try..... which is where the contention comes in.

Nit Well put! It's kind of interesting though that it's so emotive that you can't even invite a factual discussion without it becoming entirely subjective.

seeker to be fair to those people, they were sold a pup.

Their childood was advantaged in that their Dad could generally afford school fees, their Mum to stay at home, or do a small income job that fitted in around DC.

They had nice homes. They were brought to believe that the world was waiting for them. Not just by private schools, but by society in general. The iddle classes, whereever they were schooled thought the class system was in place. And it was.

They went off to university (no huge struggle for a place) where it was free. There were jobs in the Summer and inter railing.

Then bam. The world changed.
The working classes wanted a slice of the pie. The internet struck. The world became global...house prices shot up. Cost of living shot up. Competition for everything increased. School fees become silly money.

Not exactly how those people saw it laid out.

Yes, it is emotive - from both sides, and doesn't always bring out the best in everyone!

Though to be fair, threads like 'St Mary's Calne or CLC for dd' are usually only responded to by those responding to the question - and that's probably why they stay nice and short!

The only two specific private schools which generate lots of posts are Eton and Queen Ethelburga's, as far as I've seen . Probably about all they have in common!

"seeker to be fair to those people, they were sold a pup."

But to be fair to everyone else, they still do hold most of the cards, socially, politically, culturally..and usually financially as well.

Well yellow I think DC need to get an understanding way before that point.

I think DH and a lot of other partners would also argue that many young applicants simply don't get it!!! Indeed many trainees/newly qualified don't get it.

They fancy the dosh. They think they'll work hard for it. They think they'll make it.

But that level of commitment requires a brutal determination and caste iron constitution. The drop out/cast out rate is huge. The numbers of those made up is low.

Put up Excel. Type in monthly gross income. Deduct typical monthly expenditures. If the resultant figure isn't enough to pay the fees of the school you have in mind plus extras like school trips then you can't afford private school.

It's that simple.

Our DDs are in private school. My Dh has worked hard for many years to earn a lot of money but he works long long hours and is often away. That is our sacrifice, family time. However, his career affords us a wonderful house, good lifestyle, fabulous holidays, I have not had to work and we can afford private school. However, I spend most evenings and some weekends on my own with the DDs and he has only ever been to a handful of their school events.

Girls at my DDs school come from a variety of backgrounds, some are very wealthy for whom private school is a given and fees are a drop in the ocean. In some cases both parents have to work all hours to afford it. Others have grand parents who pay the fees, actually I know a few families where the mother was privately educated but can't afford to send her own children so the grandparents step in. There seem to a lot of generous grandparents out there! Interestingly if my parents were both still here and had the means I know they would have helped out had we needed it. My DHs parents are still here and have the means but would never offer and we would never want them to.

We worked hard to have our lifestyle, which includes being able to educate our girls in private school. I am proud of what we have achieved but never take it for granted.

"But to be fair to everyone else, they still do hold most of the cards, socially, politically, culturally..and usually financially as well."

I think as far as statements like this are concerned, private schools are definitely not all equal. Eton, Westminster etc etc - yes, your statements is very true. The more modest, less upper class, less expensive social-climbingy private schools - really not so much. I know so many people who went to really good comps - and not such good comps - who to any impartial observer would appear to have every bit as much social and cultural capital (if not more so) as any number of my peers from a more down-to-earth private school. As far as schools like mine are concerned I really think any perceived advantage comes from the quality of teaching, facilities, discipline, extra-curricular activities and an atmophere of expectation and confidence, not anything to do with entrenched privilege. Anything else is from your family background.

Good point earlier Woozlebear. People used to go to private schools whose parents were on moderate incomes and had a variety of occupations and some were very wealthy. I think it is more difficult these days.

Also I think to certain cultures education is very important so the extended family will pool their resources to put their children through private school and they may prefer the setting of a single sex school for their child.