Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

[quandry]

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

One can go on speculating which is human nature but why not wait until 13 March when all will become clear. None of these postings are helping the girls. Before anyone says it I do not want to limit discussion but there must be better ways of spending ones time. No More posts from me until after D day!

Mainly because other local schools are asking for deposits by between 3-11 March, so one has to make a guess as to which way the wind is blowing before then. And clearly even whether the land ends up as part of RGS potentially impacts perceptions of that school. It is a question that will be asked once offer letters come out next month.

Anyway I assumed that the sheer volume of tweeting and press releases from the PAG were intended to bring this to the public attention. If they want to work quietly to come up with a plan then great, but so far I've had over 1,000 tweets from them this week!

I've decided that I'm not going to post on this thread again. I wish the parents action group (sorry, Dunottar Voice) the best of luck and I hope that the RGS dominated board of governors listens to their proposal with an open mind. I won't say they might already have made up their mind and decided that the scandal and news stories are a short-term price to pay for the long-term benefits of gaining land and facilities worth over £4 million. I am sure that they are better people than that and I hope that this situation is resolved to everybodys satisfaction.

So, the Governors were right then - there is no future for Dunottar Girls' School? That is a real shame. I think we should ask the Voice not to give up on single sex. At least the Governors took a year not a weekend to decide to abandon the school's heritage!

There will be lots of people saying they support for a new co-ed school on the Dunottar site. In Kent - there is a name for co-ed schools that are non selective - they were called 'secondary moderns'. These were rarely popular and non retain the ethos of a small girls' school.

We should all tell the Governors to back a single sex school.

It certainly seems to be the less selective girls schools which are most at risk. Even relatively locally, Croham Hurst essentially closed when it was merged into Old Palace (who of course have benefitted hugely from their grounds). Commonweal held out until they pretty much went bust, and in that instance I'm not even sure whether or when the staff got their redundancy pay. But I agree with LIZS, that it is probably too late in the day to try to save the school by going co-ed.

It must be hugely galling for Dunottar parents to see their land and buildings effectively be bequeathed to RGS, but the rather archaic charity law precedents don't actually give the trustees that many options once they determine that the school itself is no longer a going concern. Depending on the covenants and possible planning permission for the land they could sell it or grant a long lease and become a grant giving educational charity, which could at least keep the Dunottar name going, but if the land is not easy to sell due to restrictions on its use, then the gift or transfer to RGS would make most sense for the charity trustees to be able to show that they have executed their fiduciary duties. I'm assuming that if the trustees are aiming for all girls to be able to complete their exam courses, then there must be some degree of cooperation with RGS in order to deliver this, as presumably most staff would stat looking for new jobs asap rather than wait out for redundancy? Unless they are being offered substantially more than statutory redundancy of course.

I have always wondered what would have happened to the land etc if Dunottar had closed last year and not gone to RGS. Who would have owned the land and a charity, could it be sold and who would get the proceeds if the school no longer existed?

Sometimes the trusts are written so that it would revert to whoever previously owned(or next of kin) it if it ceased to be used for educational purposes. There seems to be a lot of hope placed upon the legalities of the charity status. The USP of Dunottar is the single sex education , if that is lost I'm not sure whether there really is sufficient demand for non selective co-ed to sustain it long term, probably still within the RGS group. The kids I know of who might be interested head to Box Hill, Ardingly and Worth and often board. I don't think they'd view a co-ed D as in the same league.

I don't know Liz. There is certainly a lot of positive talk in Reigate today since it was in the surrey mirror about potentially going co-ed.

Within Reigate if you have a boy that does make the grade with RGS, Box Hill is the only option locally. Parents are definitely making noises about welcoming Dunottar as co-ed although the proof is always in the pudding as they say. Personally Box Hill has has too many 'issues' to make it an option so this move by Dunottar voice may be a good thing. Also re-inforced by the mirror article about RAA and academy status to my mind.

Education in Reigate has been dominated in recent years by one school and as a parent that would like options, I find the latest movements encouraging. Change can be good!

Oops (clearly I didn't receive the education worthy of a education thread!).

If you have a boy who does not make the grade for RGS

Sigh. I will stop now

an education thread.

I wonder how the DunottarVoice can establish if a co ed Dunottar can survive. How can they know how many girls will stay under that circumstance or even more tricky to know, how many boys will come. It is late in the admissions process, so are they expecting boys with places elsewhere to give them up for the new Dunottar. Seems unlikely many would do that. I mean, why would you, when it has been under threat of closure and is totally untested as a mixed school.
As someone else said, the USP of Dunottar was being a girls school. It had a bit of a niche. The abandonment of fighting for it to stay single sex seems to confirm what the Governors said about it not being viable in that format. That is certainly sad for girls and staff. The new, alternative idea sounds like clutching at straws to me. That kind of school isn't what existing parents chose and not all of them seem to want co ed. their uncertainty about co ed must be compounded by the fact that a new co ed Dunottar is totally untested and would be a very different school to the girls only Dunottar. It would essentially be a brand new school. I truly wonder how many are so loyal to Dunottar that they will be able to overcome these issues and resist the temptation to look elsewhere or accept an offer from an established,proven school which has no question mark over its future (and of course that doesn't have to be RGS). The Governors will have thought through all these kind of issues which mean there is really no certainty of how many girls would stay.....and this sadly makes it too uncertain to be viable. The only option I could see for it to remain as a school in its own right, is to close and everyone leave and later perhaps relaunch from scratch. I don't really think that will happen either.
Anyway, what do I know? Just my thoughts from looking at the situation and appraising the consequences of a school having long term falling numbers and then uncertainty about if it can stay open and also the prospect of a total change in its nature.

Chocolatewombat- I agree with what you have said, makes a lot of sense. I can't see how they can change the school to co-ed quick enough to tune it around, it all feels very desperate and last minute.

Bellie- curious to know what 'issues' do Boxhill have, I know that some D girls have now been offered places there, I wonder if they are aware...

The parents wanted to save their Dunottar. I totally get that. They loved the special girls school it was. The school with boys though, would be a very different school. I wonder how many parents really want to fight and commit their daughters to going to a totally different school. It would be an unknown in so many ways. Suddenly you are talking not about fighting to save the thing you love, but something different. I don't think the same level of support can be there under those circumstances. Dunottar with just girls was unlikely to survive (and the abandonment of that idea confirms that) but I think the idea of a co ed Dunottar is even more unworkable for the reasons here and in my previous post.

I would have liked a girls school to survive as I think there was a bit of a niche there (although not one enough people wanted to fit into) I should think the work of DunottarVoice is both a comfort to people and also a source of further confusion, because things are changing and ideas might further change. Hard to commit to something when you're not entirely sure what it will be.

Luckypup - it's difficult to go into but the head left suddenly at the beginning of this term. There is history which may or may not be proven to repeat itself.

Chocolate wombat: (USP of Dunottar is value added. I really, really won't post again!)

I wonder how many of those overheard in Reigate yesterday would be prepared to hedge 12k + pa on such a project though, perhaps even risking their dc secondary education in the process? The ethos would be different - it won't be the same D the supporters know and love - as would the economic pressures to get it right. How many pupils are required to make such a project viable ? With RGS et al offering large scholarships/bursaries and similar for boarding at RAAS (although that may yet change) can D make itself financially attractive enough to get the numbers on roll in time ?

Open letter from Dunottar Voice. Well done for being open about what is going on.

twitter.com/dunottarschool/status/429195375803523072

I still don't get what's going on from that letter. Last week Dunotatrvoice were saying co ed was the plan. Now no mention of that. Is that idea scrapped too. No mention of if it is girls only. What are they proposing should be continued. How can anyone decide if to support IT if they don't know what IT is?
Sounds like an anti RGS rant to me. Isn't the key issue if Dunottar has a viable financial future and in what form? A few numbers of how many are still there now would be useful. There are lots of posts mentioning girls visiting other schools, but do we know how many are still there?

I agree with chocolate, I'm not clear what the plan is.
There seems to be some contradictory information flying around. The letter states numbers have dropped to 206 but the Trustees were reported in the press as saying it was 186 - are they not comparing the same measure? It can't be that difficult to establish how many puplis were at the school at the time the consultation was announced!

What financial support did Dunottar want? My understanding is that the schools share coaches so presumably that must save money (albeit not huge amounts). I thought someone upthread said a loan was offered but turned down so how is that not offering financial support?

What I get from that letter is that the Dunottar trustees looked pretty naive when they agreed to the changes to the articles...

With regards to Dunottar's USP - value add is good measure, I don't understand why the school never made more of a play of it. When we were shown around, the headmistress said the USP was that it was a girls school, I can't remember any mention of value add. Compared to other schools Dunottar's promotion of itself via its website has been poor for a long time, minimal information about exam results (apart from headline rates) and sparse information about leavers university destinations. It could have made so much more of itself.

Hopefully the parents group can re-invigorate the efforts being made but as I said I'm not sure what the plan is.

I agree again with choc wombat, it feels very much like the voice are anti RGS which probably is not the way to go. Also where has the co ed idea gone.
The open letter refers to pupil numbers saying there were 220 girls in July 2013 but I have just heard that current numbers are only 186, so obviously girls have left the school this school year already and the radio interview I just heard also stated that they really need 200 girls for the school to be viable. The numbers just don't work and I would think it will be difficult to attract new pupils with confidence. I certainly wouldn't want to take that gamble.

The 2011 ISI report says there were 220 in the senior school then, and the school has supposedly been working hard to increase pupil numbers since then according to its Charities Commission entries.

Interesting snapshot of the financial history here: apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/FinancialHistory.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=312068&SubsidiaryNumber=0

It's been spending more than it has had in income since 2010! Presumably has been running down cash reserves?

sorry..
apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/FinancialHistory.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=312068&SubsidiaryNumber=0

Hmm ... apparently the DunottarVoice site isn't publishing any negative comments, or those supporting RGS, so looks like you're right, Luckypup!

So, gosh, there's a lot going on, isn't there.

Is the USP all-girls? Hmmm. It was an aspect. Mattered to me. Now if I've the choice of co-ed Dunottar or the schools we'd already chosen against. Well, I pick Dunottar... my other options are all co-ed anyway! BTW, on the DV.com blog it says some stuff in the comments about there being a number of options being considered and co-ed may be 6th form only -- that sounds like a good idea, whatever they do with the rest of the school, really.

I think added value is really compelling and can't believe I've ever heard of it before!! So, my take away? As we all knew the marketing has been pants for ages and in the last, say four months, has totally turned around.

Sadly it was only given four months before they declared it was not working. Pretty brutal.

I reckon that the DV gang are working their bits off and - as a group that didn't exist two weeks ago - are doing an awesome job. So, the comms isn't fluid and sometimes wires are crossed. Maybe they took on a really hard job and are doing their best? I don't see dissing of RGS... I see them being really bewildered by governors old and new and their decision-making.