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Original poster

Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

999 replies

quandry · 31/01/2013 20:56

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

OP posts:

Frankie24 · 28/02/2014 23:29

I'm not sure why there is so much bitchiness in this thread. We all want the best for our children and what's right for one isn't necessarily right for the other - it's not a one size fits all when it comes to them. So I agree that there is a need for both schools. Personally I don't like what I have heard about the way the RGS/Dunottar governors have handled the whole situation. Has anyone acted inappropriately? I don't know, but something doesn't seem right to me. I'm sure in time the truth will come out but for now can we all try stop the childishness and go back to sensible discussion? No need for catty comments surely??

I do believe Dunottar will grow and grow from here. It is a lovely, caring school with great teachers and confident, intelligent, young ladies. It will be interesting to see how it pans out opening up this wonderful environment to boys. Re RGS I have heard excellent things in the past, but I have no direct experience of this school. However, I do think the school's reputation has been tarnished slightly as a result of recent events. Will this affect the numbers wanting to join - no I don't think so. Will my children ever go to RGS - I don't honestly know. They are certainly academically strong enough, but I'm not sure the school has my trust after recent events (even if it was just the governor's actions that disappointed me).

Here's to another 87 years Dunottar!!!

ChocolateWombat · 28/02/2014 23:35

Yes, local and interested in education and the financial side of schools and governance. Used to be a governor of a primary school in the area, which is why I am interested in that side. Ive followed other mergers/takeovers and going mixed as a way for schools to survive, for years. Interesting that this one is nearby. Could be a prospective parent for one of these schools one day, but not for a good while. Hope I'm not outing myself!

Bo72 · 28/02/2014 23:38

No, I definitely don't think you're outing yourself. Thanks for the resume :)

Petalpower1 · 28/02/2014 23:48

Frankie24, you're probably new to this thread, so I'll try to give you as brief a background as poss:

Dunottar gets into (very minor) financial difficulty, but panics and goes to RGS for help.
In return for a letter of comfort to cover (very minor) overdrafts, RGS takes over Dunottar. As part of the takeover, Dunottar's constitution is changed so that if, for whatever reason, Dunottar closes, £8-10m of unencumbered assets fall to RGS. Whatever the reason for this change, it certainly creates a massive incentive for RGS to let Dunottar close.
6 Jan 2014 - highest number of pupils for 5 years take Dunottar entrance exam, plus UK economy finally on the move.
15 Jan - Dunottar Board of Govs (two thirds of whom are also RGS Board members) announce consultation on possible closure of school.
Dunottar parents refuse to accept closure, and within 4 weeks bring in United Learning to take over the school
During their year in charge, RGS did not invest any money in Dunottar, neither did they bring in any other bodies to take over the school. United Learning did approach them, but were rebuffed.

I hope this goes some way to explaining the bitchiness.

Bo72 · 28/02/2014 23:53

Petal power, thank you. I hope people read your post, think about it, digest it, then question those you refer to, rather than on here. This is serious stuff that must be gotten to the bottom of. And it is this "stuff" that makes me "get" where Dunottar parents are coming from.

Frankie24 · 28/02/2014 23:55

Thanks PP1. I have followed events but haven't posted. I can see why there is bitterness and resentment due to recent events, but some posters seem to be a little childish in their posts. Hopefully that has stopped now.

Petalpower1 · 01/03/2014 00:06

A question that hasn't been asked much, and perhaps should be, is what would RGS have done with £8-10m of assets if Dunottar had closed? Do they need it for something? Will they be in difficulties now they haven't got it? What does this mean for RGS fees - will they increase dramatically? Interesting times...

Bo72 · 01/03/2014 00:14

That's an important question, as is why did the chairman resign? And why did they not try harder to save Dunottar, particularly if united learning had shown interest prior to consultation?

redillredneck · 01/03/2014 00:14

I heard that UL have a very mixed record and if you look at their website at the last 50 schools thay have taken on - they have all either changed from independent to state comp or were already a state comp. A Google search shows that early promises were made but an academy was the way it turned out. Jon Coles worked in the Dept of Education when the Academy programme was cooked up.......
Once again, they have apparently promised no academy but not in any different way to in other schools that are now in the state sector for new joiners.

rise

Sheldonswhiteboard · 01/03/2014 00:16

I think it is a little disingenuous to suggest that RGS may be in financial difficulties now. I would have thought that the letter of comfort that RGS supplied to Dunottar's auditors wouldn't have been accepted if the auditors believed it came from an entity that was itself short of a bob or two. RGS has just announced an initiative to increase its bursary awards so I don't think it is facing financial hardship.

Luckypup22 · 01/03/2014 00:16

Again PP1 totally uncalled. Stop with the underhand comments

Urmel · 01/03/2014 00:17

Every school has unknowns that parents usually just ignore and go for league tables: Dunottar is having a big powerful organisation step up to save it. Do parents like the changes (to co-ed for example) they will make? But without those, the school is closed. Not too difficult a choice.
For all schools: parents need to check the financial viability (pupil numbers / debt service / ability to maintain the school for a decade.

Dunottar (apparently) got a guarantee for 10 years - are other schools matching that or do they not need to because their financial situation is so much better? How much better?

Sheldonswhiteboard · 01/03/2014 00:20

If UL has signed an agreement with the trustees guaranteeing that the school will remain in the independent sector for a fixed period then they will have to stick to it. I can't imagine that the trustees signed off on an agreement that did give at least some level of certainty on that point. Of course past that date who knows what might happen but then no one knows the future do they?

Sheldonswhiteboard · 01/03/2014 00:24

"Didn't give" not "did give", my typing is telling me it's time to go to bed!

Petalpower1 · 01/03/2014 00:27

Luckypup, not an underhand comment, but a valid question if you are a current or prospective RGS parent.

Redhillredneck - are you also known as Bearleigh? He/she also keeps harping on about the dangers of Dunottar turning into an academy. A few days ago I asked for examples of any independent schools that UL had turned into an academy - I'm still waiting.......

Petalpower1 · 01/03/2014 00:32

Sheldon - not being disingenuous - how are RGS going to fund 20 bursaries? That could run to £1-2m - not peanuts.

Should be interesting to see the 2013 accounts when they finally come out.....

Urmel · 01/03/2014 00:35

Luckypup, @00.16 (sorry, i know it it's late, but)
I disagree. PP1 comment was factual not derogatory, so I understand if you dispute the facts but not if you dismiss a rational comment.

Urmel · 01/03/2014 00:36

Bo72: WHY did the chairman resign? (just worked up the thread)
No idea - assumed it was a temporary post, but resigning while in critical negotiations for the survival of a charity entrusted and about to close, that sounds a bit ...interesting.
Do you know any more?

Sheldonswhiteboard · 01/03/2014 00:41

Yes you are being disingenuous, the bursaries are being provided from the 1675 fund, the aim is to raise £4m by 2025 by donation, fees are not going up to fund this. I'm sure some parents will donate to the fund but fees won't be going up to fund it.

Urmel · 01/03/2014 00:51

Redillredneck: I'm too old to work your search on UL website to find the last 50 schools they have taken over and see how many were converted from independent schools to academies. How many independent schools have they taken over? How many were converted to academies in last few years? and were there promises given not to?

Petalpower1 · 01/03/2014 00:52

Sheldon, can we have your assurance that fees won't go up?

Personally I'm worried that RGS is going to turn into an academy.....

soothsayer123 · 01/03/2014 00:55

Suzy78 do you think anyone is going to take anything you say seriously when your opening line is "Jon Coles is better looking than Alan Walker". Powhatan pathetic, juvenile load of tripe you're spouting!!

Urmel · 01/03/2014 00:56

Sorry, Sheldonswhiteboard, not quite sure why I'm disingenuous? Not talking about fees

soothsayer123 · 01/03/2014 00:56

what a not powhatan - autocorrect gone haywire

Urmel · 01/03/2014 00:57

Sorry, Sheldonswhiteboard, not quite sure why I'm disingenuous? Not talking about fees

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