Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

[quandry]

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

There is an increasing local ground swell of interested prospective parents who want the school. This is not wishful thinking but fact. I just can't understand why there are some people still trying to plant seeds of doubt. This attitude is not helping RGS at all as some people may think that the doubters do have hidden agenda and are masquerading as parents, perish the thought!

Wow, incredible. So anyone raising legitimate doubts or questions must have a hidden agenda / be linked to RGS? Well I have to say the attitude of the vast majority of pro-Dunottar posters here has totally put me off even considering Dunottar for my three children.

The number of phoney posts increases! They are very easy to spot and almost amusing. What is shameful is that existing Dunottar girls read your doubting comments and obviously get upset. They have been to hell and back, been told that their school is secure and read perhaps it is not, how very cruel. Please accept the school has been saved, the details to finalised and it will open in September. Just think what you are doing and how mean you appear.

Oh my goodness, I am shocked by these recent replies, which do Dunottars cause no favours.
I congratulated DV on its success and wished them well. I said that I thought the fact choice has been preserved was a good thing and RGS is not the right place for everyone. I said I thought many would look at Dunottar and I would look myself.
However, I am now told I am not the Dunottar 'type' because I have asked legitimate questions. I have not planted seeds of doubt, but asked questions that people in the community are asking and will continue to ask, in a time when all the details are not clear. I have not broken any talk guidelines at any point.
All I can assume, and I point this out, in case anyone else reads these recent posts and feels they don't want to consider Dunottar in light of them, is that I can only assume the views represented in these last few posts are not representative of Dunottar parents or school. Whilst a few have consistently attacked any questions as 'negativity' others have been honest about uncertainties and difficulties and shown balance rather than a refusal to even consider seriously the issues the community outside Dunottar is asking.
Dunottar moves into the future and although what that will look like is not entirely known now, that choice it gives is good. Prospective parents and interested members of the community, I urge you to continue to be interested, pleased that it remains open and continue to ask the questions required to help you decide if this school is the place for your children. I'm sure the school itself will be happy to answer them and understand your need to ask them. Do not be off by the few who want to quash any questions. Best of luck (again) to Dunottar.

Aw, cr@p, ladies... People really do get their knitting in a twist in this thread, don't they?
The great news is that the conversations between UL, DV and the board are a lot more cordial and there is much agreement. A happier place by far than this!
Undoubtedly Dunottar will take some time to get strong. Equally there has been good interest from prospective new girls and boys... and some who left have mooted making a return.
So, it seems to me that just about anything is possible. It could be a good few years before numbers pick up. It could be that some year groups get heavily subscribed quite soon. Who knows?
I've no beef with anyone having a view on anything, personally. Do take exception to the constant sniping here. It's why I only dip in rarely. There's lots I think about saying. Hard to see that there's any point.
Maybe some people are only happy when they are unhappy. Or making others unhappy?
I'm pleased that people around here still have a local choice of private secondary school.
I'm sad that people fuel this debate with unhelpful comments (on both sides).
Bye. I'm done.

I too am shocked by the recent posts, talking about 'opposition' et al. There is no opposition; only people saddened about D's position leading up to 4 weeks ago, and pleased for the girls that it looks like the school will remain open.

The comment:

They managed to do in 4 weeks what hadn't been attempted in the previous year

by putting all the blame on RGS neatly overlook the facts, which are that the school had been haemorrhaging pupils over a long period before a year ago. This must have been obvious to all, including parents, but no action was taken, apart from a few adverts. The school reached the buffers, having seemingly exhausted all possible avenues including the opportunity that was equally open to the previous governers, of discussions with UL, and appealed urgently to RGS, which gave it a tow rope on limited terms agreed with the D governers. There was then a warning speech but still the parents took no action, and so far as I have learned there was no clamour to turn it co-ed.

Now you are all looking at a plan that seems likely to change the school radically. I suspect that all soundings before had concluded that parents wanted the school to stay girls-only, small classes, cosy etc, and as this business model wasn't working, the decision was taken to close, but in a more orderly way than would have been possible if RGS hadn't thrown the tow rope.

DV has achieved a huge amount in the past 4 weeks, but please don't undo the good DV has done by sometimes sounding like the bitchy teenage girls in an American high school film. Some prospective parents might think that if this is how the parents behave, they can only imagine how the girls will be...

What I don't understand is without having secondary aged children even in the picture why post comments seems bit weird to me but its a free forum ....... At the end of the day you must do what you want to do. Will always be different opinions but won't change the fact Dunottar Will remain open. Some on here cant get their heads around that not sure why...good news that we have more choice right? It will take time but the parents are well aware of that and accept that. We know CW numbers are lower and parents do get it and we still aren't leaving! I have enjoyed reading the comments some really do make me laugh. The way forward is keeping the children motivated carry on regardless and enjoy Dunottar basically what we have been doing. It is what it is.

Was it a tow rope or a noose?

Absolutely Bearleigh! Well done those governors for having the guts to confront the issue which was staring everyone else in the face! I've never understood why the parents were so 'shocked' by the announcement - the Juniors had closed, class sizes were falling etc - it isn't rocket science to work out the trajectory it was on?
You could argue that the consultation announcement was a deliberate strategy to focus proper attention on the issue, rally support and come up with some solutions which, in the past, might have been dismissed as too radical? If so, it has worked perfectly. Sometimes you need something like this to galvanise people into action.

I said it wasn't relevant to me at the moment, but it could be in the future. I just think prospective parents deserve to be given truthful information and not just the positive glossy spin Dunottar Voice is putting on the limited facts they are cherry-picking out. The information coming out on the governors is much more measured, balanced and truthful - and let's face it, they are the people who are empowered to make the final decision. DV may have been invited to the table, but they do not have any formal decision-making power in this.

I am REALLY pleased the school is going to continue. I think it is an asset to the local area, a lovely building and produces fine young students. My kids have been there for swimming/ Camp Beaumont/ art competitions etc, and I can see why parents are desperate to save it.
Hopefully the handful of (presumably Dunottar) parents on here who are being aggressive and rude are the minority, because they're not setting a good example for their children...

Absolutely Quandry, you have summed this thread up perfectly.

An amazing interpretation of what the intentions were and as to what really happened. What this does demonstrate to the children is that if you love something it's worth fighting for, fight for it and it won't be taken away. As I said up-post I have many teacher friends at RGS and they also find some of sad and negative posts highly embarrassing.
Anyhow will leave this forum now and hope the pointless squabbling stops.

Can't believe the way the thread has turned in the last day or so's posts.

Earlier in the thread there was some mud slinging, but that appeared to disappear, but now it seems to have come back.

I am hugely positive about D remaining open - as I have said my daughter may be able to come back. But I have lots of questions that I want answering before I commit anything about returning.

Questions that any parent looking for secondary education now, next year, or sometime in the next 5 years will want answered before taking their decisions. The very arrogant and dismissive tone about posters who do not have secondary age children now, is really not helpful to D's cause, because it is parents like me and others on this thread who are the future of the school. But in a very similar vein to what happened last year with the Juniors, it sadly appears to be the case, that as that will not impact directly on those children/parents (as they will have left within 5 years) they simply do not care. It feels all very insular and personal rather than genuinely caring about the school and the long term future.

That is my concern - sorry if that comes across negative, but I am simply voicing my opinion.

As far as I can see the only people that are putting things across as 'fact' are the people who are so heavily involved in Dunottar that they are blinkered to the outside world.

I do know as 'fact' though that letters have been sent to parents of children who have left offering to pay for notice, or terms fees upfront. I have seen a letter sent to a friend. Seems slightly desperate to me, and doing exactly what DV and the school have accused other schools of doing. Slightly hypocritical given the moral stance that DV and the school have been trying to take against RGS all this time.

Do UL know that this has been going on? If they do, it makes me feel that they are not going to retain the ethos, it will be purely about numbers, and getting them through the door.

If UL are not aware of this, I believe that someone needs to alert them to what is happening, which could potentially damage their reputation.

I think this is all getting a little out of hand.
Firstly I think people will have to agree to disagree on how Dunottar ended up where it is and move on, we can't change the past, only learn from it. Secondly, of course people have lots of questions and they are all valid but there is no crystal ball so the only way to see ifthe school changes is to wait and see. People are entitled to their opinion, I personally don't think much will change but I think it would be unfair to call me naive it is just my opinion. Thirdly what people have to remember is that so people have been devoting their every waking minute to this and are rightly very proud of what they have achieved. Without their hard work the school would have closed.
I think a lot of the questions come across as negative because they can't be answered. As I said before, there is no crystal ball. It is a case of wait and see.
as to sending out letters to previous parents, why not send them. Most of those parents left because they were concerned about the future of the school not because they didn't like it. I am sure it os not about numbers grabing more about expressing an understanding of thr difficult decision parents had to make and providing help if parents wanted to return. I am sure the parents of the girls in question are very capable of making the decision themselves and some might find it helpful. I am sure if the school didn't contact these parents people would say that they were ignoring those who had decided to take action rather than wait. You can never please everyone.
I am looking forward to seeing how Dunottar progresses, the other independent schools ran by UL are all different, so i am sure there os a place for a school like that. Embrace change and remember that questions about the future are only answered when you arrive there and that is the same for any school. When you sign your child up for 7 years there are no certainties, change in Head or Governors can completly change the direction of any school so just because a school has a proven track record it does not mean it will be like that when your child finishes. So pleade can we stop the mud throwing and watch with interest and excitment as a local school starts a new chapter in its history

If I have understood it right, Dunottar will be becoming a state comprehensive academy in 3 or 4 years just like all except one of every school that UL have taken on in this century - 40 of them! There is no guarantee being offered in anything I have read on DV or in e mails sent out that would rule out what has been the ultimate destination for new UL schools in the last 15 years. As with other UL schools, the school will be governed from head office in a very effective way that will mirror the mostly succesful approach taken in the dozens of othe UL state academies across the country. (Caterham is not a full UL school, just an associate so has a different arrangement as does Guldford High because it joined UL in 1888!).

That will mean the school will do really well, will be full and will meet the local demand for more places at secondary level. Every one wins.

I think this is an excellent outcome for the area where most people can not afford independent schools. It will widen choice, increase the number of places and allow UL to implement a model of academisation (is that a word) that they have tried and tested dozens and dozens of times across the country.

Nowveryconfsed could I possibly ask where you have read, seen or heard to the tune of dunottar becoming a state comprehensive academy in the next three to four years. Thank you.

NowVeryConfused - Re your projection, I thought it was VERY interesting that on the DunottarVoice website on the 10th Feb release someone asked if they would confirm the continuation of the independent status, and the question was ignored and still remains unanswered. I had also noticed that the word 'independent' was conspicuous by its absence in the statement from UL!

I think when you are very close to something and working day and night (as I understand DV have been) it IS easy to lose the outside objectivity and perspective a bit, and just 'see' the bits that you really want to see and believe?

I wonder if working night and day also means it is possible to miss one comment on a blog?

oo - had not read all the comments around the 10th Feb release on the DV website - I have done so now.

The question about academy status has been raised many times on there, and ignored.

It is certainly something I will need the answer to before I make my decision about whether my daughter returns in a few years. That is not retaining the ethos of the school at all.

I am sure that every prospective parent will want the situation clarifying too before committing both money and their childs education to this scenario. The survey that DV have relied on so heavily to show that people want to send their boys and girls to Dunottar does not mention anywhere if they would send them to somewhere that may turn into an academy in the future.

maybe tired but missing answering a question of some significance like that together with the lack of "independent" being mentioned in communications is probably leading people to put 2 and 2 together and make 5. If there is certainty that Dunottar will remain an independnent school why not say so and make it clear to everyone. That way there is an informed choice.

I don't understand why people on here seem to be hell bent on sowing seeds of doubt? What is the agenda behind that? I'm all for asking questions but they need to be directed at people that can answer them with accuracy! What is the point in a bunch of people 'guessing'? What's worse, seems some of these people a. Don't have children at Dunottar, and b. are not prospective parents either? So why so much interest and involvement? The mind boggles..... This is creating doubt when there need not be. For the record, there is a meeting with United Learning next week for people to ask all if these questions. Shall we do that? Instead of guessing?

Well said Bolligog! Definitely seems some odd interest on here, and this state academy thing? Any mention of it from UL?

Nope. None whatsoever, in any communication from UL, or during the many Dunottar Voice meetings!!! No mention whatsoever of turning Dunottar into an academy. I'm 100% confident that those in the relevant group of DV who are dealing directly with UL are 100% on the ball!! They are a lovely bunch of people with a vast array of professional skills, as we already know. Luckily, this wont be a long process so all of this speculation will come to an end very soon.

As I thought, thanks for clarifying. I guess some people on here who basically, aren't really involved in any way, present or future, just don't have the insight people like yourself do, so they speculate as you say. I agree though, it does make you wonder what is behind their interest. Personally, I am very much looking forward to the conclusion of this & very much hope it takes your school to where you want it to be. Well done to all of you for all you have done! Quite remarkable! I shall definitely be putting Dunottar on my possibles list for my kids in the future. Thanks for making this a very real possibility x

So, here's a thing. The parents have been sent an invitation to meet United Learning at the school to have their questions answered. Why not come? They seem to be very nice and accommodating, I'm sure they'd be really pleased to answer your questions direct.

Message reads:

Dunottar Voice has arranged for Jon Coles, CEO of United Learning, David Levin, Head of Independent Schools at United Learning and a number of local Heads from their schools to join us on Thursday 27 February at 7.30pm to talk to parents and answer any questions you may have. The meeting will take place in the Main Hall. Can you please email [email protected] so we can establish seating requirements.

Come along!

Bolligog - is that meeting with UL just for current parents, or open to other interested and prospective parents too? I would love to see and hear how some of these questions are answered.

The thing is, I'm afraid I simply don't trust the information that is being provided by sources such as the Dunottar Voice website. There are clearly some things they simply cannot share due to NDA restrictions etc, but equally I know that they are also being extremely selective in what IS being shared. It's just good news all the way...
I understand that they are extremely proud of what has been achieved (and so they should be) but I find this 'la la la - fingers in ears - not listening' attitude (particularly on here, but also to some extent on DV site) to probing questions all rather insulting to our intelligence. These are all important issues which I can assure you are being discussed by parents who are having to make school decisions NOW!

So, UL haven't discussed academy status at all then so far? Let's face it, they wouldn't be likely to, would they, if that was their end game?
Have they definitely confirmed that Dunottar will continue as an independent school? If so, why not include that magic word in the statement from their CEO? They're apparently a fantastic, professional organisation - they must know that this is important to current parents?

The core of the DV team are all business professionals I understand, so they will get to the bottom of this in the coming weeks. However if UL can't commit to this, then it could be a deal-breaker. I guess that's why the Governors are still saying there are a 'number of options' on the table which would keep the school open, rather than putting all the eggs in the UL basket.

It did strike me, incidentally, that it really isn't a sensible idea to publicly declare such hope in just one of the options (as DV are doing) as it weakens your negotiating position if you are seen to have already rejected the other options?