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Secondary education

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Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

999 replies

quandry · 31/01/2013 20:56

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

OP posts:
Batman111 · 16/02/2014 19:01

Thanks Nikki. I have many teacher friends both at RGS and Dunottar who are really inspirational teachers. We meet socially and really get on well together. This is the best possible outcome for both schools and I am delighted. For your information I have observed lessons at both schools and the approach could not be more different; none better than the other but different. Long may it continue.

Batman111 · 16/02/2014 19:45

Gaudete Gaudete, as the great lady said!!!

Bearleigh · 16/02/2014 19:49

I am really pleased about this for all the people who love and support Dunottar, and for Reigate and the area. It is vital to have choice as every child is different and what suits one won't suit another. Well done to all the people in DV who much have worked very head over this: to go from a standing start to this is a real achievement.

Bearleigh · 16/02/2014 19:52

Grr at my lack of proof reading before posting and at MN software and inability to edit posts. DV must have worked very hard...

Batman111 · 16/02/2014 20:02

They did.

Batman111 · 16/02/2014 20:05

They did. Worked hard and worked smart!

Bo72 · 17/02/2014 16:24

Wonderful news!!! What great role models those parents are for their kids!! This just goes to show what can be achieved when something really important is in jeopardy. Thank you DV for all you have done, your achievement will ensure that parents will have choices when it comes to their kids education, particularly if those kids aren't suited to or suitable for the grammar school. Without your work this could so easily of ended very differently and if closed many of us would have been denied this choice. What you've achieved will affect generations for years to come & with the real support of United Learning it sounds as though Dunittar will be even better than ever before. You should be very proud :)

wholenewwoman · 18/02/2014 09:52

Oh Wow! What a fantastic result to hear! and even more interesting that I have heard UL will support for 10 years not the 7 originally proposed.

It may well be that my daughter can come back Smile

I'm guessing that there is still lots of work to be done though to agree the details - RGS and UL and I guess the staff of Dunottar will be working hard this half term to work out how to do all the hand over and the legals behind it! Are UL having to pay RGS to get Dunottar?

I look forward to seeing the way that UL start to run the school and how they plan to increase numbers to give me the confidence for future years!!

Genuine question - will the funds that DunottarVoice raised to get to this point now be handed back to the school in order to mitigate some of the debts prior to being signed to UL?

byebye1 · 18/02/2014 10:27

Yes come back wholenewwomen!

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 11:00

That indeed was my question before the plan was endorsed by the board. As I understand it, and I do shand to be corrected, no monies will be payable to RGS to "hand" back the school. The school belongs to the Dunottar board even though it comprises 6 RGS governers. IMO it was the wisdom of Dunottar voice in employing a top QC that ensured the right thing was done in the end. A great outcome for the girls and an excellent object lesson!

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 11:02

Sorry reply was to Whole new woman. And I meant stand not Shand, not been on the gin!

wholenewwoman · 18/02/2014 11:06

Thanks Batman. Just pondering on the whole trauma really!

My understanding based on what happened when dd was in the juniors through the 'merge' last year, was that RGS would own the school - am glad to hear that this is not the case.

Am very interested to see the next phase of developments now that Dunottar/RGS have to negotiate the details of how it will all work. I see from the statements that are in the press etc from the Chair of Governors that the school will definitely not close, but it seems that the UL deal is not completely finalised - hence why I asked whether UL have to pay RGS.

It does seem a lot more certain which is brilliant!

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 13:01

Wholenewwoman . It has been very confusing. The impression that most people got last year was that Dunottar had become one of the RGS group of schools, this was stated on Dunottar's website but NOT on the RGS website in the way that RSM is included. I always got the impression that Dunottar was never fully "embraced" by RGS and that now turns out to have been the case. We were not told that it was just a little "support" for less than a year; hence the outcry when they wanted to close the school. Once the legalities and logistics are finalised UL will own the school and anew board of trustees will be appointed.

wholenewwoman · 18/02/2014 14:59

Absolutely Batman - I agree there was no indication that the support was very short term from all the meetings that I went to last year.

However, Dunottar can now look to the future and I guess the legal contract with UL will be gone over with a fine tooth-comb given the past experience! Although I guess there still has to be something in it for RGS to hand over the control again?

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 15:26

I really do think that there will be nothing in monetary terms for RGS. The consequences of not handing back the school were compelling.

ChocolateWombat · 18/02/2014 15:56

Interesting looking back at all this now, even though its clearly not finished yet.

Seems Dunottar original trustees had got into a mess. Perhaps they panicked. They however did not go to the parents, but to RGS and asked for support, which RGS offered. Perhaps the original trustees should have gone to the parents a year ago or 2 years ago, so a parent group to look into possible futures could have been formed. However they didn't do this. Would I be right in thinking too, from all this on here, that the Head and old trustees did not make clear the limited nature of the RGS commitment (or was it evident, but parents wanted to see the positive side, rather than the limited nature)

In the year which followed, little really changed at Dunottar. Probably no one expected it would in a year.....so a year on, the financial position was the same. As RGS had never promised long term support, Dunottar were back to where they had been a year before, but this time possible closure was announced. This gave the impetus to the parents to form PAG later DV to look at alternatives. Without the threat of closure, perhaps such a body would never have been so effective as this one became. UL were found and a co ed solution suggested, which the Governors considered and looked at and found workable. One of the unfortunate things in all this seems to have been the criticism of RGS Governors. People seemed to think they had been promised a long term salvation plan and that this was pulled. However, it seems to me they delivered what they offered and the sad thing was that the limited nature of it was either not made clear or people failed to grasp it and then put the blame for all Dunottars problems on them rather than seeing the longer term root causes of the problem.

My question relates to how they are now seen. Many people on here have been very negative about RGS Governors. Is it now seen that they responded to a request from Dunottar for help and said yes to short term help. With hindsight, do people think the limited nature of the offer was misrepresented at all, and if so was that by RGS or by the old trustees of Dunottar. Did RGS do anything wrong at any point? The threat of closure it seems to me had to be voiced at some point. And actually, although upsetting, was actually necessary for serious alternatives to be investigated properly. (Would current paretns have been willing or able to look at the wide range of alternatives, which would make Dunottar a very different school if not forced to by threat of closure) Possible closure, with a consultation period to assess alternatives was announced by RGS (only option, in light of their limited support) when it should have been announced earlier by old trustees. So then, both DV and then new Governors worked hard looking at alternatives and assessing their long term viability.
Seems to me, the Governors have worked hard with DV and a way forward has been found. If RGS had never been involved at all, I would have thought closure in 2013 was more likely and no one would be there anymore. I just wonder if the RGS governors will now be seen in a more positive way or still as causing all of Dunottars difficulties.

On a different note, the continuing Dunottar will be or become a very different school as boys enter and UL takes over. There will still be a school there offering choices in independent education, which is brilliant, but the choice which will be there in future will be a different one to the one there has been until now.

I am so glad for the girls and staff who want to remain in the new Dunottar, that they now have the option to do so. What a relief for them and testimony to a lot of hard work which Im sure those involved will never forget. I will watch with interest how attitudes to Dunottar, to RGS, and to UL develop over time and how Dunottar evolves. I'm glad I'm not in the market for secondary education at the moment, because there would still be too many unknowns for me to be able to choose Dunottar, but in a number of years when I might be making that choice, I would certainly consider the new Dunottar as an option and think others will too.

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 16:28

Yes choc, I agree with you in that the extent of the "support " was not made clear to parents, staff and pupils. The feelling was that Dunottar was a permanent part of the RGS group of schools. It was blazened on the Dunottar website so how could we feel that it was not the case. RGS should have pointed this out although Dunottar was never mentioned on their website. This is what has caused the I'll feeling, surely you can understand that. It was a shock, even the head was shocked at the news.
Anyway that was then and this is now ; it's time to move on and create a great school that will thrive.

byebye1 · 18/02/2014 17:40

Exactly....to move on. Seems the parents and kids have that's the main thing!

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 18:07

You could actually sense the feeling of relief in the school on Saturday as well as happy smiling girls even though the proposal had yet to be appoved . We all knew that such a robust, compelling and financially sound case would win through. I expect Dunottar will soon become the school of choice in the area.

byebye1 · 18/02/2014 18:24

Lets really hope so batman . It really is an excellent school. We have had a superb time. The teachers know them girls inside out. Results speak for themselves. First choice unis etc. I speak from my heart. My girls are well rounded individuals. I want my girls to get married there!

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 18:56

There will be some changes at the school but they will be for the better. It is the small class sizes which allows the teachers to really know their pupils and get the very best out of them. The students actually like going to Dunottar, it is a a splended environment in which to learn.

byebye1 · 18/02/2014 19:34

Spot on ! I really do like the hoodies you know! Fantastic design. Tell you what would D would be good place for Downton Abbey! Lol xx enjoy half term!

Quandry · 18/02/2014 19:40

I originally started this thread over a year ago! Saw it had kicked off again recently, but decided not to enter into the fray Shock given some of the comments.

batman & byebye - I can see how relieved you must be feeling to know your daughters can continue at the school, but don't underestimate the changes that will be coming in the months and years ahead. I'm not sure how you can confidently assume that some of the things you mention ( like the teachers, small class sizes etc) will remain the same?

I think there will likely be staff who will find teaching co-ed very different, and may decide it's not for them? Equally, I imagine UL will be taking a critical look at all the teaching staff ( and head) to assess if they have what it takes to change things for the better. I expect that they will consider putting in a new head teacher ( sad, but often the case in situations like this).

I'm sure new Dunottar will be a popular school in the future, but it all takes time, and reputation is so important to parents. As the mother of all sons, I would need to see several years of co-ed operation before choosing it for my youngest. I can imagine it might become the local alternative for parents who were otherwise considering Box Hill?

OP posts:
Angellinaballerina · 18/02/2014 20:25

Quandary: interesting to hear that you started this thread - wow! How it unravelled! Yes, I would guess that the local alternatives are Box Hill and perhaps St John's in Leatherhead. Either way, a bit of a trek. Up thread, I mentioned that a teacher told me that staff had a vote in support of UL and stated their desire to stay at Dunottar under UL ownership. 100% in fact. Perhaps UL might review existing staff but then again, perhaps not. They're excellent with the added value results so they must be doing something right! The main building's a listed building and the classrooms are small so the classes are unlikely to get bigger because you can't fit more children in and of course no extensions allowed. Up thread again, tiredandweary said that UL have committed to 10 years for the school to get back on its feet although in reality the projections are for it to break even for the first 2 years so it should be thriving after that. Best wishes (this really is my last post!)

Batman111 · 18/02/2014 21:24

Quandry ,as a teacher of several decades experience teaching boys, girls and university students both in the state and private sector I know what changes need to be made. If they are done in a well thought out and sensitive manner all should be well. I am sure UL working in conjunction with the staff and DV will not disappoint. Exciting times !

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