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Secondary education

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Original poster

should I grass up the new neighbours?

174 replies

sybilwibble · 27/12/2012 10:40

Met the new neighbours at another neighbours drinks party. Lovely mum and daughter, plus granny. Ask Mum, as you do, Where have you moved here from? Her response was that she only lives about a mile away, where they have a lovely family home, now sat empty, but they've rented the house in our road as it's right in catchment for the great local secondary. They've been here a month, and will find out on March 1st whether their dd will get a place (she will) then they will move back in a year.

Granny then tells me seperately, that they will be moving back in March, as soon as they get the letter from the great senior school, as they have not been successful in finding anyone to rent their family home from them. Either way, I'm a bit Hmm. My dcs are younger so we're not applying this yr, so doesn't directly affect us...but would feel very sneaky calling the local authority... wwyd?

OP posts:
FestiveElement · 30/12/2012 22:59

I agree that if someone actually moves their life to a new address it shouldn't be considered as fraud. That is very different to giving an address you don't actually live at on an application form.

SoupDragon · 30/12/2012 23:05

It isn't really different. Moving temporarily in order to gain an advantage wrt school admissions is cheating.

FestiveElement · 30/12/2012 23:08

People move temporarily for other reasons though, it's got to be very hard to find out the truth of why someone has moved.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:25

"It isn't really different. Moving temporarily in order to gain an advantage wrt school admissions is cheating"

is it really different from considering schools when doing any move? most people who move who have preschool children consider school catchments as a major criteria in their search! and lots of people sell up and move into catchments.

However it's become harder to move about in some areas, properties don't sell as well as they used to so people who would have sold up their pre child property and properly moved to a good school catchment don't have that option any more so now can only rent while renting out their other property! But they're no different from all the people who managed to sell and deliberately moved to the catchment when houses sold up faster are they???

SoupDragon · 30/12/2012 23:25

I imagine that the number of people who have to move temporarily at the time they have to make school applications but aren't doing it to cheat is vanishingly small.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:28

those people might have been trying to sell for years to buy into the area, but as the admission date approached realised that the sale might not happen in time

selling up and buying into the area is allowed, why not renting out and renting in the area? exact same motivations

the move might have been on the cards for years, but pushed forward so the children weren't settled in one school then moved to the area

libelulle · 30/12/2012 23:28

On that basis, moving house at all to gain admissions advantage is cheating. If you are prepared to up sticks totally for an entire year, that is not cheating, it's playing the system. People move for all sorts of reasons all the time - we were tempted one year because of a particularly awful set of student neighbours who we knew would be gone following September! If we had, then council would have queried us using the old address for school admissions, not the new one!! Councils cannot legislate against people manipulating the system, only actively defrauding it. Much as you might not like it, the two are not the same thing.

SoupDragon · 30/12/2012 23:29

is it really different from considering schools when doing any move? most people who move who have preschool children consider school catchments as a major criteria in their search!

Of course it is. Can you really not see that? Confused

I moved here when my eldest was 3. We moved into the area because of the three good primaries compared to one dodgy primary and a very good church school where we used to live. Funnily enough I'm still here, in the same house, 11 years later. Unlike the cheaters.

Moving into a permanent family home is completely different to temporarily moving into catchment to cheat the system.

SoupDragon · 30/12/2012 23:31

We moved as we needed a bigger house. We chose the area on the basis of the schools.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:31

also, if you don't own you can give notice and rent in a catchment and that's perfectly okay?

but if you own and can't sell you can't move catchments?

I don't feel the need to move, but if I did I know my home wouldn't sell easily at the mo, it's taking neighbours years to sell theirs! but homes around here DO rent easily

so people who live in a more saleable area can move catchment, people who just rent and don't own anywhere can move catchment, but if I do I'm more immoral than them? just cause I'm stuck with my property and can only live here or rent it but not sell it?

how is that fair?

(again, I don't want to move, am happy with local schools, but if I wasn't?)

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:34

Soupdragon, I CAN'T exchange my owned home for one in a different catchment like you did.. they're just not selling round here, and I own so I can't just give notice and move to a different catchment either, I would HAVE to keep my home and rent it out even if I wanted to move somewhere for more space as well as a different catchment

SoupDragon · 30/12/2012 23:34

but if you own and can't sell you can't move catchments?

No one has said that.
All that has been said is that you can't rent temporarily in order to jump up the admissions list.

SoupDragon · 30/12/2012 23:37

Soupdragon, I CAN'T exchange my owned home for one in a different catchment like you did

and? I'm not entirely sure what your point is. Unless you are, hypothetically, planning to rent temporarily then you aren't cheating are you? Confused

Illgetmycoat · 30/12/2012 23:38

I'll bet my bottom dollar this is in North London.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:39

but EVERYONE who uses school catchment areas as a criteria when househunting for rented or bought homes is doing it "to jump up the admissions list"

I have never met anyone who has moved with preschool age kids who has said "no we won't try and move to a good school catchment, we'll just blindly pick a house we like for other reason sand take pot luck with admissions, we'll just take whatever school happens to cover it Hmm"

SoupDragon · 30/12/2012 23:39

Anyway, I no longer care. There are clearly some people who think it is Ok and others who do not. There are some who have seen children miss out because of cheaters and those who can't see the "victims".

Nothing I can say will change that.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:40

Soup dragon no I'm not but IMO I wouldn't be cheating if I did keep my home and rent in a different catchment, any more than people who sell up and buy in a better catchment, or people give notice on rented homes and move to a rented home in a better catchment
.. not all of those people stay there forever more either! or even intend to!

tiggytape · 30/12/2012 23:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Greensleeves · 30/12/2012 23:41

I would mind my own business personally. School catchments and parental choice in this country = a disaster. I am lucky that my local school is good enough. I sympathise with anyone facing sending their child to a school they are worried about.

Agree with the pp who pointed out that this couple should probably stop telling all and sundry about it though. They will fall foul of a busybody...

Dottiespots · 30/12/2012 23:41

No I dont think I would tell on them. In their world they are just trying to do the right thing for their children and that is what we all try and do no matter what it takes. And they are really really doing alot and going way out on a limb for their kids. Sometimes schools are not all they are cracked up to be anyway so hope they are not disappointed,

perceptionInaPearTree · 30/12/2012 23:44

It's none of your business. I don't see that they are doing anything illegal. Circumstances for many people could mean that they move out of a catchment after their child got a place anyway.

People like you are the reason I never discuss my personal life with anyone.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:45

"It only stops being fine if you later move back to the original house after the admissions process is finished. "

There's lots of reasons to move back to the original house like:

  • its not selling
  • renting it out didn't work out how they had calculated financially (i.e. a run of bad tennants and repairs)
etc

moving for school catchments is as "real" a reason to move 5 miles as say wanting more space or a spare bedroom or because they (usually mistakenly as hadn't counted on shit tennants) thought it might free up some money to downsize while renting a bigger property

FestiveElement · 30/12/2012 23:46

Tiggy, we will just have to agree to disagree that moving into a catchment area temporarily is morally wrong, because I just don't think it is.

In my opinion, it is much more wrong to not do what you can to give your children the best education you possibly can.

libelulle · 30/12/2012 23:49

Ok so how long for then tiggy? For the sake of argument, you stay 3 years then move back is that still fraudulent? If you rent out your house you are not making it permanently unavailable to you, so how does that work for families who rent in new catchment because they can't sell in old one? I am not saying you are wrong in how councils investigate, but I am bemused at how they draw the line between temporary and permanent moves in urban areas with highly mobile populations even not allowing for catchment.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo · 30/12/2012 23:50

(I do actually know people who've moved from larger owned properties to small rented flats because they thought it'd work better for them financially, sadly it doesn't seem to work very well, but people do do it because they initially think the maths makes sense!)

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