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Secondary education

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Is the 2013 secondary school/current Yr 6 cohort small, compared to recent years?

36 replies

ChippyMinton · 18/09/2012 22:56

I've heard from a number of sources that the current Year 6 should have a relatively easy ride with secondary school allocations, as it has fewer children than in recent or upcoming years, so less pressure on places.

Anyone heard this or can confirm it?

OP posts:
tiggytape · 18/09/2012 23:09

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mummytime · 18/09/2012 23:13

I think here last year was relatively small, this present year 6 was bigger, so everything could be much harder.

LackaDAISYcal · 18/09/2012 23:25

I had heard that birth rates have risen dramatically year on year since 2003/2004 and that 2002 had a low birth rate. Certainly my DS's year group never had any problems with primary school admissions, however our chosen high school (not closest, but next one distance-wise) say in their current prospectus uthat they are over subscribed so I guess it depends on the area.

tiggytape · 18/09/2012 23:31

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marialuisa · 19/09/2012 08:52

The current Y7 is the smallest group round here.

Startailoforangeandgold · 19/09/2012 09:03

Our Y6 is tiny, but that may be a local issue. Reception is almost non existent.

Rural house prices are very high and many people who can afford to live here can afford to send DCs to private school.

Nearest town primary was over subscribed.

ChippyMinton · 19/09/2012 16:26

Interesting. I'm in the south-east (London/Surrey borders).

No problems with primary school entry, but the following and subsequent years our school has been heavily oversubscribed.

OP posts:
Florence37 · 19/09/2012 17:31

My DD2's school has 75 children in year 6 split between three classes. They are the smallest year group in the school, all other years have four classes and anything up to 105 in a each year.

SecretSquirrels · 19/09/2012 19:02

Our current Year 7 is only 2/3 the size of the last few years and the prediction is for the role to fall every year until 2017. Then the numbers go up again. Local infant schools are all full to bursting.
It's going to be a problem budget wise as schools are funded per pupil and we (governors) have been warned there may have to be staffing cuts.

amck5700 · 19/09/2012 19:08

Our primary 6 class (in Scotland) is significantly smaller than our current P7 or P5 downwards - possibly the blip caused by the millenium babies? Parents then having a gap which misses out 2002 births?

DilysPrice · 19/09/2012 19:09

I think 2002 is noticeably smaller than 2003/4/5 round here, which is a blessing for us except that we're looking at single sex schools for DD, which would leave 2004-born DS in the lurch.

amck5700 · 19/09/2012 19:09

....and the P1 class and future classes are too big for the school so they need to expand it which I think goes against the trend in general here.

amck5700 · 19/09/2012 19:09

I have a 2000 and a 2001.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/09/2012 19:12

The current year 7 group is the smallest there's been for some time. Dd is in this year and it didn't help her. She didn't get into our 1st choice secondary school, though ironically the kids in the village for the last five years (bigger year groups) did.

Copthallresident · 19/09/2012 19:19

Chippy I have seen you over on the New Schools for Richmond thread and there has been endless debate about schools place forecasting over there. It is very complex with lots of variable but not as the Richmond Head of Education maintains an art not a science!! Your LA will have overall forecasts but it can be political, many parents in Richmond do not believe the Council's forecasts stand up to close inspection of the assumptions ( which in any case have been undermined by subsequent developments). So you might want to look deeper into the data. IME also if you ring the LA education department the staff at the frontline will give you what they believe is the best advice regardless of the political influences. I will list the variables and how you might research them for your area. I am afraid I haven't time to give you links but you will find them on the other thread or you can do abit of googling.

1 Birth rate This is available from the census and if you are a London Borough the London government sources. Certainly steadily rising in Richmond and neighbouring boroughs but biggest bulge coming through 2014/15

2 Cohort size You can find out the Year 6 cohort size by Borough from the Department Of Education. Also steadily rising in Richmond but also see below

3 Percentage already private or likely to go private, or return to state schools at 11. You local borough should have published information on this.

4 Immigration into and out of the borough/area. This is difficult to assess other than through looking at the data to see if it backs up anecdote. For instance census data backs up what most of us know already, people move to West London with their toddlers for the open space and good schools but then some move out when they come up against the historic lack of good state secondary schools in some areas (or go private ).

5 Numbers of pupils migrating to neighbouring boroughs or into your borough for their schooling. Also available from your LA. This is affected by the standard of schools but also whether neighbouring boroughs have sufficient places. As you are in a neighbouring borough to Richmond there is extra uncertainty this year because admission arrangements have changed so that it is purely on distance. You are already aware of the uncertainty about St Richard Reynolds, if it goes ahead Catholic posters have conceded on the other thread that until it becomes established most Catholic parents in Richmond will stay with trying to persue the existing routes to places at established schools, it is therefore assumed it will mainly attract people in from Sunbury where Catholic parents may be dissatisfied with the local option?

  1. Economic situation. This has resulted in an increase in parents opting for state over private at primary level and Surrey are predicting that this will feed through to secondary. Again your LA should be commenting on trends in reports to Council Committees, Admissions Forums etc.
  1. Ofsted ratings of local schools. Good ofsted ratings increase the cohort and attract people away from the private sector.

I hope this helps. For what it is worth to my knowledge both Kingston and Hownslow have rising pupil numbers and a projected shortage of places, though to what extent this will affect the coming year is debatable.

PrincessOfChina · 19/09/2012 19:44

I'm told that this year's 6 around here is particularly small. This year's Reception is huge though, as is DD's birth year. Typical.

admission · 19/09/2012 20:48

The bottom line is that it could depend on which schools you apply for. The cohort generally is smaller than previous years and is about the bottom of the pupil number dip, the lowest birth rate year was 2001.
However if you express a preference for the best school in the LA you will be with many other parents chasing the same number of places that there were in previous years and there will potentially be more pupils chasing those places because more parents think they might have a chance of a place, because the cohort is smaller and also because of changing economic conditions for many families.
If however you express a preference for a school that is less popular (and may be every bit as good as the "in" school then you may well find there are less applications and therefore more chance of success.
The alternative argument is that because the system used is equal preference and you have at least 3 and possibly up to 6 preferences to put down, all the schools will still have lots of applications and the scramble for places will be just as bad as last year. The only difference may be how close you have to be to the school to get a place.

DeWe · 19/09/2012 21:01

Round here it is the current year 7s that is the smallest year. They start going up again after that year. So I wouldn't rely on catchment areas etc. being any bigger than last year.

MrsJohnDeere · 19/09/2012 21:18

This is true of the y6 at my Dcs school. Handful of pupils and only 1 girl.

Reception and y1 are huge.

Copthallresident · 20/09/2012 01:04

Chippy

Richmond cohorts according to Dof E

2011 entry 1705
2012 entry 1765
2013 entry 1750
2014 entry 1915
2015 entry 2105

So a bit of a dip but not that significant in the scheme of things. You'll find your borough on the website but since you neighbour Richmond I can't believe you are not in the midst of a similar upward trend in pupil numbers. It is replicated across London.

kylesmybaby · 20/09/2012 01:25

chippy - we are in chiswick and found exactly the same as you for primary. fingers crossed it may be the same for me now going into secondary.

Annelongditton · 20/09/2012 10:31

Chippy

DS attends The Mall, boys school in Twickenham. The current Y6 has a much smaller intake than the rest of the school, but Y7 and Y5 have always been over-subscribed. Y6 mothers tell me than the mixed preps also have a small number of Y6 boys, and that it was an unusually low birthrate for boys in Richmond that year. I don't know if that's true, but no doubt someone will!, but I don't know what else would account for such a small intake for that year.

prh47bridge · 20/09/2012 13:14

To go back to the original question, looking at state schools nationally based on the figures from the January school census the answer is no. The number of children in each year attending state primary or secondary schools is:

R 608,740
Y1 591,925
Y2 580,460
Y3 566,670
Y4 549,960
Y5 529,340
Y6 533,355
Y7 536,145
Y8 550,520
Y9 556,120
Y10 569,745
Y11 551,825

So we are in the second year of a 3 year dip. Since the current Y6 is similar in size to Y7 it suggests that the pressure on places next year will be similar to this year.

Of course, these are national figures. There may be wide regional variations. Unfortunately the DfE doesn't seem to publish these figures for each LA so there is no obvious way of figuring out what it looks like in your area.

lljkk · 20/09/2012 14:48

I love prh47's numbers (hard numbers all excite me).

I thought there was a general Millenium baby boom, so might be some truth to it.

That said, DS secondary told me that they had a dip in applications due to local dip in birth rate, for the current y7s & y8s (born late 1999-mid 2001). But they expected to be over-subbed again for autumn 2013. They claimed for this yrs intake, that only one child in their catchment went to a different state school.

Fine, except this same high school has an ad in local paper about an upcoming open day & evening, for Autumn 2013 starters.

Why are they paying for an ad if they don't anticipate low applicant numbers again?

OodHousekeeping · 20/09/2012 14:57

Dd2 is current year 6 and both schools she has been in are 40 kids in a year as opposed to the other year groups of 60. Worked out well for her as they are 20 in a class and she had loads of extra help but couldn't get a statement.other schools in the area ate similar.

Dd1 is current year8( millennium baby year group), her year was over subscribed in primary and we struggled to get her inwhen we moved.