Is everybody happy with their choice of a NON-selective secondary education over a selective one?

[AdventuresWithVoles]

Genuine question.

I can clearly understand what Seeker is saying. I don't think those types of comments are unique to her town. I live in a big city with one grammar school. I've probably made those exact same comments to children I've known who have sat the exam. I've not made them to be patronising, it's just the kind of thing you say.

If somebody was to go in for a driving test and passes, you automatically congratulate them. If they fail, you make all the right noises, assure them you believe they will pass next time. You certainly don't call them a loser, nor would you dismiss it. Can you imagine if you only got one chance a the driving test. If you failed first time you were never given another chance to drive. Okay their might be others who decided they didn't want to drive, but you would always know that you were not good enough, or maybe you couldn't afford as many lessons.

Its bad enough here when the DCs get their letters for secondary school where most DCs are going to a variety of local comps/faith schools. Different schools will always be perceived as better than others and people will always believe that makes the people who go their better.

I failed and it was a huge deal for me-and I wasn't in Kent.

Those who passed definitely thought they were better.

Or those who didn't pass thought that those who did thought they were better.

I never had any views, I have to say. I'd have preferred not to have my hair ignited with an Embassy, but still.

Either way-the words pass and fail are fairly clear- and not something you should be doing to children of 11 years-or 10yrs for the youngest in the class.

Agree. But think there's an unfair assumption that kids who pass, or used to pass, are arrogant, uppity little shits. Maybe more time should go, or have gone, into supporting the kids who didn't pass the test. Re-inforcing the idea that talents are different, not better.

And as for 'Tiger Moms', give me strength. I'm at the point where I can look back and see just how many academically successful children in the cohorts I've watched succeed on merit without any 'Tiger Mom'. In fact I'd be prepared to strike out and do research on the premise that more UK children succeed academically without one of those than they do with. My gut feeling is that it's either pointless or counterproductive. Long live a laissez faire aproach to a child's education, as in the old days.

@yellow I do sometimes feel like the most mumpy mother in the world for being so unconnected to how DD1 is doing at school. I see all those merit points or whatever they are called clocking up on the intranet but I have no real sense of what they are 'for' - except they are all academic based. I have no reali idea of how she is doing compared to her peers except in music, and sometimes I think maybe I should - but even as I think the thought a wave of apathy sweeps over me and I give up.

Music to my ears . Metabilis, don't give up giving up (it's worked for me :)). Intense parental surveillance doesn't seem to me to be what it's about. Or am I the lazy exception which proves the rule? I'm not disinterested at all, but no way could I do what all these MN mothers do, it's just not in me.

The tiger mother thing was one of pooshtun's little fantasies. None on this thread to be sure.

Yes scummy I do as well. Especially as local comp is a performing arts specialist and this is an area in which he excels (he has already been child lead in a professional play touring from the west end, performed in front of over a 1000 people -which would have had be quaking but he loved, made it through the final round of a very competitive musical etc etc), but unfortunately I seem to be alone in that thought. I am going to ring local comp tomorrow to make an appointment to go and see it and drag dh along to try and make him see sense

The biggest problem is that ds2 seems to think he wants to go to the grammar. If he didn't I would happily back him up, but he is insisting. No idea whether that's because he thinks that is what we want though. I have told him repeatedly that I don't mind where he goes but he has still asked me twice whether I will be angry if he fails. :weeps:

@yellow I did buy her some new school shoes today before catching my flight to Edinburgh (only an hour and a half late , it was, flybe excelling again). So today I am clearly über mother.

Being lax isn't always good though - I have no idea what is going on with the Olympiad thing and I'm quite concede she will end up Not Singing as I think there are clashing engagements with the younger kids.

I'm not celebrating laxity, perhaps just a lack of oppression.

However, no-one can claim to be lax at the same time as buying new school shoes in mid-June.

Phone up school. Someone somewhere will help your DD to sing. They really will.

saintly stick him in for the test and tell him you're cool, convincingly.

I have, but he's not cool about failing. I've spent the last 20 years happy to have a go at something and not care if I don't get it, so that's second nature to me. I think it's far harder when you're ten and already struggling with your place in the pecking order at school.

I honestly don't see how he can be prevented from having a go, not with his mindset. Surely it would just fester? He sounds quite old for his age. I bet it will turn out right.

No I don't see how he can be prevented from having a go either. But I know failing (which is a possibility certainly) will affect him, and I'm also not convinced if he does get in that it's the right school for him.

Hence my dilemma.

@yellow the heel had fallen off the last ones (which it transpires were a size too small) I think it's fair to say the shoe front has been a bit of a disaster recently.

While the rumors about how pressured the school is re, I think, mainly Bynum I am aware of a couple of kids in her year who have let stress majorly get to them. I don't want her to be like that. Luckily at the moment the seems to be no sign that she is.

bunkum!!!! Blooming auttocorrect.

saintly I don't think you have a choice until you see what the results dish out. Then see the school and both jointly decide.

Metabilis, given your alma mater, you must have seen that these sort of problems come with the territory. This stuff about stress is repeated over and over again with high achieving schools. People need to be more imaginative about the cause.

Of course we have a choice - we could choose not to put him in for it. It's deciding what's the correct choice that is hard.

If any of my children were so set on taking the test, I'd say it wasn't my choice, but theirs. Hence no choice.

Sometimes they just want to know of they could get in, rather than actually wanting to get in, if that makes sense.

DS sat the exam, did the visits but did not want to go and I don't think he ever did. Being naturally competitive he just wanted to know if he could go,

If he was saying with adult steely determination that he wanted to do the test then I would have no problem with entering him. Likewise if he said he wanted to just have a go It's the fact that he says he wants to do it in-between howling and crying and wailing 'I can't do it I'm rubbish I'm rubbish' in a very 10 year old manner that makes me undecided about the whole thing.

And he's not like this in other areas of his life. He is quite happy to pitch himself against hundreds for an audition and if he doesn't get something is able to reflect that not getting after, but getting to the final round or whatever is still good. He absolutely does not seem to be able to enter that mindset with this bloody test. I'm the product of a selective education and very competitive university and I HATE the bloody thing. And having crawled through yet another paper with him I have to say that anyone who thinks the 11 plus has anything to do with education has a warped idea of education.

But weirdly I seem to be the only one thinking like this (perhaps because I'm the one scraping him off the floor the whole time) - school and wider family seem to think he's a dead cert. All I can say is the to me it feels wrong. (in the way, at times, certain therapies have felt wrong for ds1 so I've stopped them - and never regretted it, nor felt 'what if'), had others agreeing with me then though.