Is everybody happy with their choice of a NON-selective secondary education over a selective one?

[AdventuresWithVoles]

Genuine question.

Hi binns -

I was expecting a 2i for my degree based on pass results but on the day of the exams the moon was not aligned with Uranus and Mars was in its ascendancy :) and I got a 2ii.

A lot of blue chip companies only recruit graduates with a 1st or 2i. Same with entrance requirements for Msc. So there I was at the age of 21 unable to secure a good graduate position or able to get onto a Msc course that would have secured me a good graduate position.

The story does have a happy ending. I got into IT and once you acquire the technical expertise no one really cares about your degree.

Anyway, my point in this. At various points in our lives major events are decided by what happens during one week, one day or even during one hour.

Sure, some bright 10 year old will have a bad day. Sure some attractive and sophisticated :) future MNetter will have a bad day at the age of 21. But I don't expect decisions to be made based on the possibility that someone, somewhere might have a bad day.

As usual,ooshTun, when you are called on your misquoting and misrepresenting, you just ignore and move on.

To be fair seeker you did say on another thread that you were very pissed off with other parents making comments about your DS not getting into grammar.

Sorry, but rain or no, I'm not going to search for it...

Hamish - I accept that if the entrance exam is based on national curriculum subjects then the prep kid will have an overwhelming advantage.

But in my experience, at least around here (Hearts), the Indies and GS uses VR and non VR papers. Ok, some will have Maths and English papers and there your prep or tutored kid will have an advantage but they appear to be in a minority.

I am not saying that kids from well off families don't have an advantage - they do. I'm just saying that too many people have a mind set that dooms them to failure before they have started.

Thanks wordfactory.

I know that its not very mature but - In Ya Face, Seeker! :o

Completely agree that no one should have a negative mindset, Poosh and agree it's perfectly possible to do very well from a state primary.

Some of the independents I've spoken to have said is that they are looking for 'potential' on the exam - I am not sure what that means in practice? Certainly there isn't much scope to show potential in a VR.

I can't actually remember saying that- but if those who pay so much attention to my every words say I did, then I must have. Where does that equate to people whose children have passed rubbing others' faces in it? And the "failure" business?

Come on, PooshTun. Try and have a proper debate, rather than making juvenile remarks. You never know, you might enjoy it.

seeker yes indeed I hang on your every word . I just can't help myself...

Actually, I remember it because so many poeple were asking why you didn't move. And I thought wow, if I hated the system that much, and if I really belived that the DC attending the High Scool were considered failures by so many other parents and by the DC themselves (christ what an unhappy school it must be), and that it simply did not cater adequately for its pupils, then there is absolutely no way on God's green earth that I would inflict it upon my DC. No way. No how.

And I'm astonished anyone with any choices would.

I am as certain as I can be that I did not say that about the school or it's pupils. I have always said that it's a perfectly fine school and my ds will do well at the school.

The problem here is that some people find it impossible to draw a distinction between being very unhappy with the system and the impact it has on the cohort at large and the community we live in (which i am), and being unhappy with the individual school(which I am not).

And there a other people who, for some reason that escapes me, seem to find it entertaining to deliberately misunderstand me.

As I keep saying, this is an important debate, and one which, should the push for more grammar schools. Gather momentum, will become increasingly relevant. Far too important for puerile point scoring.

@Hamish - IMO the entrance exam selects those that meet their minimum academic standards and that the interview is used to select kids with potential.

DS failed to do 5 of his maths questions so he basically kissed goodbye to 20% of the marks there and then. So we were very surprised when we got an offer. I suspect that he was selected because of his 'potential' rather than because of his marks.

Clearly I am missing somehting seeker.

You say you are happy with the High School?

Odd then that you didn't just apply to it, as I'm sure other parents who against the system did. As far as I recall, your DS applied the grammar and then you made an appeal when he didn't get in.

You have then made repeated observations on many threads about the low numbers of pupils with high levels of ability and how this is not a good thing.

You have also described it as the sort of school MNers would run screaming from, and that parents in your area see it as second best.

You have talked repeatedly about sheep and goats and how that must make DC feel.

Now you say you're happy with it?

Lawks, I wish we could have one of these threads without it degenerating into a discussion of Seeker's ds, his school and how she feels about it. Which is not, as far as I can see, introduced by Seeker, I must add. Seems so reductive.

TOSN I think that might be possible if seeker didn't constantly refute thinsg she's said in the past and demand they provide evidence!!!

It is a constant with her. She makes the debate personal for effect. Then gets pissed when other posters quote on personal issues. You can't have it both ways. I would fully expect to be pulled up on any inconsistencies if it were me.

Sadly, I am blessed or perhaps cursed with an absurdly good memory and an absurdly low tolerance of bullshit and hypocricy.

I stayed well out of this whole thread until I remembered somehting that was being denied.

If you can find a single place where I have not said that in my opinion the schools ds is going to is perfectly fine and I think he will do well, I will give £100 to charity. It is not the school I would have chosen for him, but it is perfectly fine.

My child's schooling is completely separate from my opinion about selective education, 11+ selection, comprehensive education and anything else to do with education. And it is NOT ME who keeps bringing it back to my family!

But the conversation wasn't about that, as far as I can see, until Pooshtun started in on it again. It's boring.

I do not make the debate personal. Well, I do if using my town as an example is "making it personal" I have not been the first to mention my child since a thread about 6 months ago.

I have been entirely consistent in my point of view throughout.

God bless your memory wordfactory :)

I tend to ignore threads about appeals (never been involved in one so nothing to contribute) so I didn't know about seeker's attempt to get his DS into the local GS.

seeker - you obviously weren't trying to conceal it so I accept that there no devious intent here but you must admit that your anti GS position is very hypocritical?

seeker I have absolutely no intention of going through your huge posting history.

I tell you what, I will give £100 to charity if you can explain why you apealed if you are perfectly happy with the school.

agree 1 million % with theoriginalsteamingnit.

Yes, I like Seeker and I understand her position on the Kent grammar school system quite clearly (its really not that difficult to grasp) but it would be so nice for a change to have a thread about education which does not become a stupid nit-picking argument between Seeker and others.

As I say, I kept well out of this thread until I saw something that felt all wrong to me.

Blame it on the old trial lawyer in me , but I cannot let inconsistencies, hypocracy, or plain old bull shit go...

Say if I didn't think I'd had a fair interview for a job I thought I'd be good at, and I appealed to find out where I'd gone wrong in the interview because I thought the process might have been unfair.... but then I got a job somewhere else which wasn't my first choice but actually also fine and was determined to do my best of it, to think well of the place, and to really commit to Job 2..... would that make me a hypocrite?

@Mintyy - It's not 'nit picking' to focus on the fact that seeker tried to get her DS into a grammar school and is now pontificating about how grammar schools are bad and how they are socially divisive.

Would she be singing this song if her DS had got in? I doubt it

but why does it matter to you, wordfactory and pooshtun? why does seeker's so called hypocrisy and bullshit need exposing on a thread where a more general discussion is taking place? To an outsider, albeit one with sympathy for seeker's situation insofar as I understand it, your posts smack of more of bullying than hot shot lawyers unearthing important truths, tbh.

It IS nit picking and it is BORING.

Seeker has long expressed disapproval of the grammar system even though her older child is at a grammar school. WHY is it so difficult to understand? Just WHY?

Actually, don't answer that. I am hiding this thread, which is a shame, because I was interested it a day or two back.