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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Entrance to St Pauls/ Westminster / Eton

80 replies

MGJO · 05/06/2012 05:11

What is the best way to check if my son has the academic skills to have a chance at getting into these schools? To what extent is a strong result in the entrance exam critical to getting in? Do you have children at these schools, and what feedback do you have on the admissions process and how to maximise the chance of acceptance? My son is in year 4 now.

OP posts:
marriedinwhite · 07/06/2012 20:24

HG - do you think we could pack our DH's off to Wagner's ring and sneak off and have a whale of a time at the Vagina Monologues at Wimbledon Theatre? Would contemplate Turandot or the Don too - if you can wangle cheap corporate tickets at Covent Garden Smile.

Sometimes I don't think I take all this stuff seriously enough but I was seriously chuffed when DS's tutor said "Mrs Married, if all the parents were like you my life would be so much easer". Don't think it's just because of the claret DH sends every year Blush.

happygardening · 07/06/2012 22:48

How about Barber of Seville? I know it's a bit naff but I live the Magic Flute as I say to my DS's it's like a ladybird story; princesse, wicked witch and a happy ending with nice tunes!!
Fab complement it's always makes you feel good when people say nice things about ones parenting skills being a parent can be jolly difficult at times and choice is not necessarily freedom when it comes to choosing the right school. Still hopefully we will no longer have that particular dilemma again.

Colleger · 07/06/2012 22:50

Music fan feeling left out... :(

marriedinwhite · 07/06/2012 22:55

I took dd to the barber during the first week - it was amazing in spades.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 07/06/2012 23:14

happygardening PM = Prime Minister
i.e. DC - Eton, NC - Westminster & GO - St Paul's

I'm a bit more of an accessible opera fan too (although I'm sure the Bartok is a laugh a minute Hmm)

happygardening · 08/06/2012 06:28

Chaz obviously; the organ music is getting to me!! Oh Im sure Bartok has a sense of humour the fun of winding someone up watching them out in the garden in the rain to escape his music sort of sense of humour.

MGJO · 11/06/2012 15:25

thankyou all, thats a lot of very helpful info.
Unfortunately we are living overseas, so our school head is not too familiar, or up to speed for me to have a great deal of confidence if they are correct! would like to get an independent opinion. I was wondering if an experienced tutor service could made an accurate assesment fairly easily?

or is there a way to do online assesment for CE to see what his score is? Where could i find such a site?

OP posts:
marriedinwhite · 11/06/2012 15:32

MGJO could you register your son to take the entrance exams for Collette Court and/or KCJS as a bit of a road test. If he does well enough in them to be offered a place he's probably on target to make the grade, with the right tuition, for common entrance at 13. Where will your son be educated between now and then in any event. Talk to the schools themselves because they all have significant Continental/North American cohorts.

happygardening · 11/06/2012 15:35

I'm sure that you are already aware of this but there are hardly any boarders left at St Pauls about 30 and those that are there are mainly in the 8th (6th) form.

marriedinwhite · 11/06/2012 15:47

I was wondering about that but imagined StP's might have grown the boarders again.

Colleger · 11/06/2012 15:48

I'd really avoid school's like St Paul's and Westminster, although less so, for an overseas boarder.

marriedinwhite · 11/06/2012 15:52

OP - if you need boarding specifically, have you looked at Sevenoaks? Also, have you thought about other schools such as: Kings Canterbury (dreadful rugby though!), Ardingly, etc.

MGJO · 11/06/2012 15:57

we plan to move back to uk, but boarding flexibility is good.
my main concern is that the international schools dont seem to have a clear idea on whats going on back in the uK
how does Highgate copmare to St Pauls, and what would eb the main differences between St pauls and KCS? seem pretty similar except IB?

OP posts:
marriedinwhite · 11/06/2012 16:08

KCS will be offering A'Levels again from next year. I honestly don't know what the differences are. We made the decision very casually at the time, KCS was convenient and we thought it would suit DS so we didn't look further. We just thought we would give him a punt at the entrance exam and he breezed in. He has been very very happy there although I feel the school is getting more commercial and more focused on results rather than the overall boy and the all round experience than it used to be.

I can't really speak for the other schools but our DS is bright, confident, not overly hard working, sporty and musical and Kings ticked all the boxes. DS refused point blank to consider Eton or Winchester for 6th form. He is very impressed with the sportsmanship and genuine niceness of the Hampton boys and enjoys matches with St John's leatherhead - St John's isn't on the same academic plane though. We know many families who are incredibly happy with Hampton and who say it ticks all the boxes for their boys, especially when there are two or three boys from the same family and only one or two who would have got into KCS or St Pauls. That's not to say that Hampton isn't on an upward curve because it certainly seems to be gaining in popularity.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 11/06/2012 16:32

You can get copies of the Common Entrance past papers here
www.galorepark.co.uk/exam-papers-special/parent-copies.html

as well as relevant text books.

Gabbitas is a well known provider of Education Advice etc it might be worth paying for a consultation with them (or someone similar) to point you in the best direction.

www.gabbitas.co.uk/services-for-parents/

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 11/06/2012 16:38

Sorry forgot to add - Highgate is co-ed. Do you have a strong preference for boys only or are you happy with co-ed?

Hamishbear · 12/06/2012 08:03

My personal experience is forget paying for advice on schools - I've spent a fortune at both well regarded school advisory services. They are only useful, IMO for: contact details of the schools concerned, information as to whether they are full boarding/day schools - therefore likely to empty at weekends. In other words they can't tell you anything that you wouldn't find out for free if you spent half an hour on the internet.

I've yet to speak to anyone who knew more than I did from a bit of cursory internet research. If you are looking for any 'insider' information - IME - you won't get it. Most of the time these 'experts' are anything but. Mumsnet is a far better source of information. You can always PM those with children at the school and speak to the schools themselves etc. Just IME of course.

I was told that a certain head teacher was well thought of (on one of my shortlisted schools). They were very well known so nothing extraordinary there. They seemed reluctant to be drawn into giving any opinion, especially a negative one. I am embarrassed to admit how much I spent! What a rip off.

Copthallresident · 14/06/2012 21:53

MGJO We came back from an International School where they had only actually heard of one Girls' London Day School! But actually having done the 11 year entrance exams there with DD1 and here with DD2 I think it is a huge advantage. DD1 had some minimal tutoring out there, to bring her Maths up to end of Year 6 level because they hadn't covered everything yet and some help with English which isn't her strong point (turned out she is actually dyslexic ) and she got in everywhere. Certainly the very selective girls' schools are looking for potential and very much value the applicants having lived somewhere else. At her International School (on a level and with the ethos of a good state school) she sat on the top table of 5 but certainly wasn't the brightest in everything. Presumably you have some idea where your son sits in his class in terms of ability. And in spite of not being crammed she had absolutely no problems once she started.

Going through the process with DD2 back here was horrendous mainly as a result of parental panic and pressure. In fact so quickly was I recovering my daughter at the school gate so I didn't have to engage with it that I could have gone straight out with the SAS on a hostage recovery mission. The school, under pressure by the parents, became a cramming machine, and on top of that parents were engaging tutors left, right and centre. In the end it made no difference, in fact may have caused some to overheat and underperform. The bright ones got where they were meant to go regardless.

I would relax, let your son find his level, then in Year 5 come back, visit the schools, see which you and he feel are right for him. DD1 chose where she wanted to go, not the one the school had heard of, and the Head there got the name wrong when she announced it at her graduation! Talk to the schools about what they are looking for and want him to have covered, IME you will hear all sorts of hysteria from parents and the schools will be anxious to balance it out. Most of the schools will let you sit the exams in their overseas school.

For what it is worth I really like KCS and Hampton boys, seem very rounded and grounded and always happy at school, and the bright ones do very well. (Don't forget the schools with the best results get them partly as a result of selecting pupils who are good at passing exams in the first place, it doesn't necessarily mean your child will do better there, in fact may do worse if they lose confidence in such a bright cohort). St Pauls will suit the outstanding all rounder with lots of confidence but beware they may get a even fuller of themselves. Westminster is great if they have a quirk and a spark, it's a very stimulating environment but might be hard to keep up if they didn't have some sort of quirk to make them interesting. Eton is what it says on the tin, not necessarily for the brightest but will deliver you an all round patrician.

Loshad · 14/06/2012 23:40

MGJO,as a northener i may have little to add to this thread, but from years in previous job of dealing with ex top public school types the winchester chaps always seemed nicer, more rounded folks than their peers from eton, westminster, harrow etal.
The new High master at St Pauls was head of the school some of my boys go to - he was outstanding, very academic, great with the kids, approachable, fair, reasonable, human, suitably strict but not excessive, etc etc , if i was in the market certainly for London schools he would be enough to swing it for me

MGJO · 15/06/2012 13:43

Thanks. I now have DS report card, he is just finishing year 4 and is enjoying school. His maths is 4A, his reading 4A and his writing is 4B. Apparently these are the levels expected at year 6.
I am assuming though that to get into westminster /st pauls the boys need to be 2 years ahead of their age in national curriculum, would you agree? Does this mean DS is int he ballpark to get into a top selective school from the pure academic point of view? The pre-selection test would be in Nov 2013, so I suppose he may be level 5 in maths and 4A in writing by then if he works hard?

Also, someone recommended I could have DS try out for a 10+ entrance (where?) to "benchmark" him, but is there a 10+ CE? , i only heard of 11+....

your thoughts much appreciated!

OP posts:
sicutlilium · 15/06/2012 13:52

City of London School has a 10+ entry (Old Grammar).

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 15/06/2012 13:59

I would say he sounds like he is at a level where aiming for these schools is realistic.

Here is the link to City of London Boys which does 10+ entry. They have sample English and Maths papers on their website.

www.clsb.org.uk/admissions/

anotherdayanotherdestiny · 15/06/2012 14:12

I have also just got my DS's YR4 scores back. He has a 5C in maths, 4 (no sub level) in science, 4A in reading and 4C in writing. He clearly has a lot of work to do in his writing but we have been told that if he can bring his writing score up in the next year he will a good candidate for City of London school and other selective day schools.

MGJO · 15/06/2012 14:43

What is the difference between City of London and St Pauls? CLS is more "grammar" school type and seems a bit cheaper, so the background is more diverse? Any other big pros and cons?

OP posts:
marriedinwhite · 15/06/2012 20:57

KCS does 10+ entry as do many other London schools, ie, Emanuel, Kingston Grammar. I don't want to be a doomsayer but I think if your DS is hitting level 4s at the end of Y4, he is probably not quite in the league the top Independents such as KCS, St Pauls, Westminster, Winchester and Eton are looking for.

DS got L5's at the end of his Y4 state primary with a L6 in maths. At his London day school he was a bit behind when he started and has always been at the bottom of the top third.

DD got L5's at the end of Year 6 and did not get into the SW London High Schools, ie WHS and PHS.