Downsides to scholarships

[mumzy]

Ds is sporty and dd is musical both are also academically sound. Their current school has mentioned they may be able to get scholarships to independent schools. I know scholarships can carry a 10-50% fees discount, but has anyone experienced the downsides of having a scholarship. Will they be expected to be available for the majority of practice sessions and events. Do the children ever lose their scholarship if they slip academically, musically or turn out not to be as good at sports and how do the miss out on re: other extracurricular activities?

I think your best bet is to ask the schools concerned what their expectations of scholars are? The only experience I have is that a friend of dd's is an Art Scholar and she was expected to take Art GCSE, which she didn't really have the time to do, as highly academic also. However, I don't know how much the school pushed her into it, or whether she just went along with it.
The schools will vary, but for music, I think there would be an expectation to keep up the particular instrument.

You should be aware that many schools are shifting their resources to bursaries. Scholarships may become fixed amounts (so not increase with fees) or smaller percentages. I think they probably do feel under extra pressure but for some children doing several things to a high standard makes them flourish.

You need to check the websites of the individual schools carefully.

Best bet is, as BH says, to ask the specific schools their policies. But being a bit sporty or musical is probably not going to get a scholarship. Most of the schools will expect a sports scholar to be at least at county level in one chosen sport, with references from (non-school) outside clubs for the others, and the child would have to perform outstandingly at a range of sports on selection day. Music scholarships vary enormously, but most would expect at least grade 4 on first instrument and good progress on a second and an impressive recital performance and interview on the day. What I'm saying is that a child with this much potential and work already put in is unlikely to drop the ball. The schools count on that, and invest in the best and most reliable. Yes, the scholars have to front up for anything in their specialty. And most schools review the scholarships annually. Hope this helps.

My friend's DD got a scholarship about 10 years ago. I don't know if it was for the full amount or a discount, but they weren't a wealthy family. The only downside she mentioned was the fact that her schoolfriends spent the weekends riding their ponies, and holidays in posh resorts, and they did, well, normal stuff. It got a bit awkward and embarrassing for her at times.

I certainly don't think a music scholarship is worth the hassle unless your child lives and breaths music. Most schools now only offer free instrumental tuition but the demands they make on a music scholar can be extensive and often impact academics or extra curricular pursuits. I do think other scholarships are worth it as often academic and sporting scholars are given more access and attention to societies, activities, professional coaches etc.

"The only downside she mentioned was the fact that her schoolfriends spent the weekends riding their ponies, and holidays in posh resorts, and they did, well, normal stuff. It got a bit awkward and embarrassing for her at times."
In the majority of cases scholarships carry little financial reward nowadays usually little more than 5% often significantly less. Although you often are more likely to get a bursary if you've got a scholarship.

DS got an academic scholarship at Y7. He wanted a sports scholarship.
He hasn't won a single school prize since then and got only above-average exam results. I feel there is a faint, disappointed whiff of Could Have Done Better about him. Not that he cares!

Any savings on fees have been outstripped by the spending on the mega-expensive sports tour.

If I lose my job in the next round of cuts we probably would qualify for a bursary. So do dc applying for a bursary need to be at scholarship level academically to qualify or do school give them to those who meet at least the basic academic criteria but financially the most needy?

Bursaries tend to go to kids who can offer something.

DD has a music sholarship worth considerably more than 5%, and has benefitted greatly from the orchestra and choir friendships, the many performances, the music tours, and the additional music tuition. I think it is worthwhile.

I had a music and an academic scholarship about a hundred years ago (ok, about 20 years ago). I now have DCs approaching secondary school age so have looked at several schools' scholarships and bursaries and would second the view expressed by another poster that schools now give far more away in bursaries than as scholarships.

On the academic scholarship front, the maximim award is usually 20% and the awards usually range between 5-20% remission of fees. Music scholarships normally just entitle the child to free music tuition (2 instruments normally), though some schools offer a small remission of fees as well.

You can apply for a bursary in addition to any scholarship award. Bursaries are means tested and as far as I have gathered, the cut-off point is a household income of around £50k. If you get a bursary, the school will means-test you every year to ensure you still qualify for the award.

In my day, having a muisic scholarship meant that you were expected to participate fully in the school's musical activities - play in every concert, sing in choir, etc. Quite a bit of practice was also expected but no more than any child keen on music would do naturally anyway (I was already practising 2 hours a day voluntarily by the time I was 11).

I suppose an academic scholarship MIGHT be withdrawn if a child really lost the plot, but this never happened to anyone I knew and I haven't heard of it happening to children of friends, etc.

maximum

and music

I have a friend with a DD on a music scholarship which was worth very little on the fees but included tuition on two instruments, which she had to do. She also played in the school orchestra, at least one ensemble, had to perform at all recitals and sang in the choir. With rehearsal and practice times, it was a huge commitment. She loved it, but it really wouldn't have worked for someone less naturally passionate.

But I agree with posters above, you need to find out what commitment the school will demand.

There is an almost universal condition on all scholarships that they are subject to good behaviour and continuing good effort.

With sports the commitment can be huge. The ones we know who got them at 13+ were already in county squads, attending national events or training with senior clubs, at 11 they certainly need to show the potential to do so. They often need to excel in more than one sport too and be available to represent the school at whatever is offered. Music again they are expected to showcase at every opportunity and attedn relevant ensembles. There may also be an expectation as to what grades are achieved by when, and usually 2 instruments played to a good standard are required.

ds1 has a music scholarship and it comes with the proviso that he take a full and active role in the musical activities of the school ie all concerts and open days as well as exemplary behaviour/attitude to his studies. (Not necessarily A* across the board but that he tries his best).

He has also got an academic one which has the same proviso, though not having to make the commitment to take part in school functions makes this much more attractive and its worth more too!

Its down to the school to decide its own terms and conditions. ds1's awards are for the duration of his time at the school so we don't have to worry about them being withdrawn unless he goes off the rails so for us there is no downside whatsoever.

Very useful when you're filling out a ucas application too!

Scholarships are aimed at children who are interested and passionate enough about their speciality that they would want extra practice/rehearsals etc. They wouldn't see them as a downside.

"On the academic scholarship front, the maximim award is usually 20% and the awards usually range between 5-20% remission of fees. Music scholarships normally just entitle the child to free music tuition (2 instruments normally), though some schools offer a small remission of fees as well."

Much more in our school - every school will vary but free music tuition seems rather measly for a music scholarship and if you only had 5% off for an academic award I'm not sure I'd bother putting ds forward for the exams. There are schools that give 100% fees remission for academic scholarships so you need to look around.

Free music tuition is usually called a music exhibition award these days I think. It is generally a lesser award than a music scholarship (these are London school terms - may be different elsewhere).

"So do dc applying for a bursary need to be at scholarship level academically to qualify or do school give them to those who meet at least the basic academic criteria but financially the most needy?"
No straigth answer some schools will only attach bursaries to schoalrships or certainly big bursaries, others usually the super selctives will offer bursaries to all although but they may still limit the size of them. Lots of posting on bursaries on MN you best to do a search for more info.

In the olden days, I had an Assisted Place to a private school (basically government-funded means tested bursary). I had a brilliant education and was very happy there and although generally lefty in my views now, I am not anti-private schools per se.

But I think it's no coincidence that the only people I'm still friends with from way back then all had Assisted Places too. And talking about it recently, we have all been left with the feeling of not really fitting anywhere - because of going to a school where the majority of people were better off than us, but at the same time living in an area where we were seen (by some) as snobbish/above ourselves because we went to a private school. I am ashamed to admit it now, but I often felt embarrassed then admitting where I lived/what car my dad drove etc at school. As well as the practical thing of our parents trying to cover expensive school trips etc, it has had a lasting psycho-social impact. Don't want to over-dramatise, and it hasn't all been bad - I always feel like I can fit in in lots of different environments, but never quite belong. So think about whether your DCs can cope with that - and whether you want them to.

(Also someone I know has a DC at a private school and way under-estimated the cost of the extras when they were working out whether they could afford it - £3000 for a trip to Asia, anyone?)

I think the "fitting in" thing very much depends on the school and the child. I recently read somewhere that bursaries should be primarily be offered to nice middle class families with limited funds (my words not those actually used but that was the general gist) as they will be able to fit in. Interesting thought.

I'd love to know what schools offer 100% scholarships (ie not bursaries, which often do go that far).

I suppose now that many more people know about scholarships and bursaries and schools actively promoting them there will be a lot more competition for them. Trying to weigh up whether its worth pushing dc to up their game and if so by how much!

DS is a music scholar which is 20% of the fees. Plus he gets an exhibition on his two instruments. So, in our case, its definitely worth getting. He attends two orchestra rehearsals a week. Unfortunately these fall on the same days set aside by the school for extra curricula activities so DS doesn't get the full benefits of attending a school with such a diverse range of activities. Having said that, if it wasn't for the scholarship DS wouldn't be at th school anyway.

As for losing a scholarship, I know a girl who lost her 10% art scholarship at the end of year 9 but I think that this was an exception (she lost interest in art having 'discovered' boys)