Downsides to scholarships

[mumzy]

Ds is sporty and dd is musical both are also academically sound. Their current school has mentioned they may be able to get scholarships to independent schools. I know scholarships can carry a 10-50% fees discount, but has anyone experienced the downsides of having a scholarship. Will they be expected to be available for the majority of practice sessions and events. Do the children ever lose their scholarship if they slip academically, musically or turn out not to be as good at sports and how do the miss out on re: other extracurricular activities?

I remember for one French lesson when I was about 12 when we had to draw and describe our cars. Ours was 'Un Austin Allegro' and was 'assez petit' and 'tres vieux'. I can still remember one super bitch showing me the picture of her mum's BMW and saying 'oh - you won't have one like mine'. Now I think: silly, shallow, nasty, petty - who cares? But that kind of attitude is harder to cultivate when you're 12. But maybe the OP's financial circumstances are not so different to what would be the majority, in which case the 'keeping up' and 'fitting in' won't be an issue.

The problem with London scholarships is the way the system works. Often children sit for up to give schools so there can be 1000 children applying for each place and that drastically reduces the likelihood of a scholarship. The process rarely takes anything other than how well they did on the paper into account. From the OP's post I think she needs a school that will try and find out who her children are, what makes them tick and their potential.

OP, I know it's far and boarding but Shrewsbury offers 50% and is now co-ed and Stowe is quite generous too. I rate Dean Close in Cheltenham and I believe they offer between 40-50%. The cohort is fairly average but it's very sporty, very, very arty and music is phenomenal. The academic scholars are challenged and are often in the national finals for maths so they do stretch the brightest. The reality is that if you want a scholarship that is decent and not a bursary then you'll have to l

Look further afield.

Spell checker changed five to give in first paragraph.

If you are looking in London and the SE, at the sorts of schools mentioned on this thread, then much of this is irrelevant. At least one of the Dulwich schools has now shifted to a fixed amount for scholarships - so their value will decline pretty fast. Even if, and this would be pretty miraculous, both your children get scholarships to one of these, you are looking at very substantial contributions from you. If you are possibly eligible for a bursary, then it is very different. I know kids with both at some of these schools and have not heard of any problems, other than perhaps people thinking they must be very very bright, which is a sort of pressure. IME the sorts of kids who get them love a pretty full- on school experience.

"JAGS, Dulwich College and Alleyn's are the obvious private day schools in south east London."
The OP has already said she's not a tiger mum or her children geniuses. I would have thought that to get scholarships into any of these you would certainly need one if not both of the above. OP if your children are bright enough for you to seriously consider scholarships into these three you would be better to try and aim for a normal place at London day school with a big bursary pot the most obvious is St Pauls (boys) but I'm sure there are others and if you put a started a separate thread on MN I sure someone will tell you. I was on the tube last year and saw an ad. for the London Day Girls School Trust of something similar offering bursaries. There are also of course an small handful of boarding schools also offering real and generous bursaries to non scholars (many talk a good talk on their websites but if you look into the figures the reality is completely different) these are likely to start at yr 9 again a separate posting on here will probably find you the info you require.
With regard to the "keeping up and 'fitting in" were not exactly millionaires; average cottage small oldish car etc, and I am very aware that there are some exceedingly wealthy parents at my DS's school but he has no trouble "keeping up or fitting in" maybe you have to choose your school carefully but we have been paying now for over 8 yrs and this has never been a problem for him.

What about the Croydon schools - Whitgift, Trinity? There was lots of talk of scholarships on the exam thread?

We're a middle income family both dh and I work. Dc at state primaries. Ds in year 4 teacher says heading for 4a's in english, maths writing so aim is level 5 s in yr5 and level 6 at end of yr 6. Dd is yr 2 and predicted level 3s. Thanks for all the suggestions will look up open days and collar bursars.

At my kids' schools Scholarships are a teeny percentage of the fees (hundreds of pounds PER YEAR rather than thousands) and the non- academic ones do come with strings attached eg membership of choir, attendance at Drama Club, participation in school teams etc. I have heard that academic scholarships are reviewed if the child drops down from top sets etc. It's far more about the Kudos and having something for your CV than any financial rewards

All bursaries are of course means tested and equity in property, 2nd homes and a significant amounts of saving will definitely be taken into consideration especially if your looking for a substantial bursary. There is no fixed formula because its all about how much money the individual school have in their bursary pot. As a general rule "big name" very over subscribed schools have more money and thus are more generous. Also more and more people know about bursaries than say 5-6 years ago, more people are financially squeezed and so there may be less money to go round and this situation is unlikely to improve over the next few years. Finally the amount of money attached to a scholarship is going down all the time in may schools its just a status award in many schools something to put on your CV so thus more calls on the bursary pot.
Good luck.

Just cross posted with homebythesea (great name I do miss the sea).

Croydon schools are very generous.

It might be worth checking out boys schools that offer 11+ entry as well as 13+. A larger number of the 11+ entrants will be coming in from state schools (some from co-ed preps) whereas 13+ entry is going to be from prep schools.
City of London Boys and Merchant Taylors spring to mind (I think that MT offers mostly nominal scholarships with a focus on bursaries).

Otherwise consider some of the slightly less hothouse schools such as Aldenham, John Lyon, St Benedicts etc. the academic performances are less stellar but often they are less competative to get into.

A third option might be State Boarding Schools - some are highly competative to get into e.g. Reading School as they are grammar schools other a bit less so.

Re the comments above snobby indie school kids, we drive a 10 year old Honda and live in a modest house. We have basically maxed out our income to pay for the school fees. DS's best mate lives in a massive 7 bed house and the SAH mum's run around car is a £50k Merc. His other mates parents are even better off. I have detected NO sense of snobbery on the part of the children or the parents.

Some children, particularly girls, can be quite bitchy. It crosses economic grounds. I mean, how often do you hear state school heads defending their strict uniform policy? Apparently it is not uncommon for state school girls to feel pressured to have their black skirts from H&M as opposed to Primark for example.

In my experience the wealthier the children's parents are the less snobby they are. My DS's friends parents are and have included in the past Sunday Time rich listers and hereditary peers with 30 bedroomed piles and land as far as the eye can see, neither the parents nor the children seem that bothered that we're just an average middle class family.

Wait a minute... So if I am earning 70000 a year schools say I can pay fees...
70000 gross income minus tax is 42000.
42000 minus rent or mortgage let's say 22000 is 20000.
20000 minus school fees of 15000 is 5000. Let's not mention uniform, food and trips...
With 5000 a year I have to pay all bills, heating etc, plus feed the family, plus cloth them, plus car insurance, transport, phone, plus

In my experience (not personal thank god) you have to be increasingly high calibre to be able to stay on if you find you need a bursary. This will depend on school's individual resources. You will normally need to be at least scholarship standard. There is growing pressure on bursaries as more and more parents need them with changing economic circumstances.

There is also some anxiety about appearing to favour incumbents whose circumstances have changed, over external bursary applicants, with the need to appear visibly above board for the purposes of perceptions around charitable status.

hardboiled they would expect you to take steps to reduce your mortgage or rent or free up equity from your property. Lets face it 22K per year is a fairly large mortgage (especially if you are outside the SE of England)

Re: the fitting in, I have experience of both sides (state and independent). There is far more bitchiness directed towards the poorer children at the state school I work in from the middle-class children there, than at the less-well-off kids at DS's prep. Just as happy says above really.

The only nasty kid my DS has encountered at Prep, is the child of a woman with a similar, working-class background to my own, who clearly feels so ashamed of it she is passing on these attitudes to her DC's. Which is a bit sad (for her DC's), but my DS is far too astute and comfortable in his own skin to let people like that bother him.

DS is shortly to sit for an academic scholarship. He might not get it, he knows that, but his current school think he has a reasonable chance, so he will go for it. It will last for all 5 years at senior school, the only requirements once it is gained are: to set a good academic example (i.e. try your best), and attend all the scholars programme events. Not a problem.

Both my DC gained bursaries and we are not wealthy but by no means poor. My DD was given a bursary because the school was failing to attract pupils and merged two years later. (Yes I now know how to check a school out financially and wish I knew then!). My DS was offered a scholarship which on the prospectus didn't exist, but was given non the less. It was called a Headmaster's award and this with the bursary, enabled DS to attend his no1 choice school. We had no idea of how the indie system worked as we had only moved over to it when DD was yr9 and DS was year 7 so it was a learning game and one which led me to write a practically begging letter to the governors of my DS school! It worked so what can I say! The only reason why the award would be taken away would be if my son broke the school rules. He had no added expectation, however his friends with academic, Sport or music scholarships, are all expected to fulfil certain criteria to keep their awards.

chat I live in London and I think a rent of 22000 is not aiming high at all for a family! I have no equity at all. I just don't know how people do it unless I am getting something wrong or private school is let's face it not for the middle class but for the wealthy and for the clever on very low income?

hardboiled I also live in London and rent out property. I agree in the centre 22K might be a family rent but I think if you were looking for a bursary they might expect you to look at something like this
www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-37820822.html
near Harrow School

• sorry hit post too soon

There are 3 bed houses available further out and I wonder if they would question why you need to live in a more expensive area and then ask for help with the school fees.

In relation to a mortgage that level of repayments would cover a mortgage of around 350K which outside the SE of England would buy a reasonable / nice house in most areas.

You see I think of myself as middle class not wealthy and can afford private school but accept that isn't true for all m/c people and that some m/c are now feeling really squeezed.

I wouls echo whoever said to try googling The Girls' Day School Trust. Great schools with a strong tradition of philanthropy (they used to be free).

I don't envy you, OP - the more I hear about London schools the more stressful it sounds for all concerned [country mouse and glad of it]

We as the nick name suggests receive a bursary from a boarding school we have a combined income of £82 000 a year and get more than a 50% reduction in school fees which are £32 000 per year. We don't live in London and rent an average three bedroomed property in a small town which is slightly under the current market rent due to the fact it's a high flood risk! But what I believe enables us to qualify for a bursary is that we have no savings, no property with equity no trust funds etc. flash cars. We live a middle class life we dont shop in Asda but Waitrose or primark but White Stuff etc we have one family holiday a year: camping in France we're not counting every penny just fairly careful. But we can't save anything significant or have a pension or of course buy a house. Over the last 7 years we've spent over £100 000 on education; the deposit on a house. Do we ever regret it? NO. HOf course no where is perfect and some bits of all schools are irritating and even wrong but an its still an outstanding education and education is one of the most important gifts you can give your child.