Can average children be pushed to get 'A' at GCSE or is it setting them up to fail?!

[Bluebell99]

My friend has just removed her child from our secondary school because she wants her to get A's in her GCSE and doesn't think she is on track to do so. Parents are supportive pushy and ambitious but child is average ability but works hard. My other child is at primary with this child's sibling and apparently the sibling is in tears everytime they have a test. So her children are under alot of pressure to do well. Do you think average ability children can achieve 'A' grades if pushed or is it just setting them up to fail???
It's making me worry that I am not pushing my older child enough :( He is above average but not a high flyer.

Yes an average child can achieve A grades if they work hard, and more importantly, have the motivation to do so. Is your friend now home schooling?

Depends what the subjects are, some are v v easy(eg Business Studies), some v v hard.

Not home schooling, has got her into a over subscribed outstanding school in next town. The thing is, I think her child does work hard but is struggling in English.

Yes it's achievable with hard work, good teaching and the desire to succeed. I would be concerned that the parents are projecting too much of their own ambitions on to their children. A primary school child should not be in tears because a test.

I think you need adequate time to get them to an A grade too. If you start now and the exam is next month then probably not possible but if the child has time (say at least a year or two)then I think it's definitely possible.

I think that average children can get an 'A' at GCSE. These days, an 'A' is more-or-less about fully absorbing the instructions on how to pass the exam, and working conscientiously. It isn't about being particularly bright.

However, "pushing" is possibly setting them up to fail. It is a really difficult fine line.

If you are not pushing to get the best grades, isn't that in itself setting them up to fail?
Telling a child that an A is out of their reach because they are "average" is not going to motivate them to work to their full potential IMO

Personally I think that with lots of effort, hard work and encouragement, "average" children are capable of exceeding people's expectations.

Isn't it all about teaching children to aim for the best?

It depends.

You definitely cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but if the child is reasonably able and, crucially, willing , then it can be done.

An average student who is not that motivated - forget it.

Some years ago I went for a look at a prep school for ds. Apparently it was popular with Premiership footballers + Wags. Anyway, the Headmistress said to me that her heart sank as yet another footballer sat in front of her, thumped the desk and said he wanted his dcs to go to Eton. And then Oxford. I suppose that's a bit disparaging about the brainpower of footballers' offspring, but really says that all the dosh in the world can't buy top grades.

Don't know how old you are Bluebell, but personally I can only relate to O level (GCE) grades. A star or A grades at GCSE are equivalent to grades A to C in the old O level system. Not sure how a child of 'average' ability can be expected to attain an A or A star at GCSE when I thought that 'average' attainment was a Grade 4 CSE, not even an O level.

I had a chat with head of a not wildly academic prep school last night - they absolutely believe that good teaching will get majority of kids an A in GCSE maths. Interesting I thought.

Schlumberger, I did'O' levels myself, one of the last years to do so :) . I am really a bit disconcerted that only A star or A are equivalent to grades A to C. :(

I'll find the link that explains it, just a sec

kelvinthroop.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/comparing-past-present-grades/

Hope this link works

Maths teacher here. I work in a high achieving comp with an excellent maths dept. I would say that only our top three sets have a good chance of getting an A or A so maybe 40% of our students have a good chance, but not all of them manage it. The national A-A rate for maths was 16.5% last year, and just under 60% got A*-C.

So I don't think that merely changing school would push an 'average' kid (smack in the middle for ability) to get an A (it could, but it would depend on why the kid was getting average results previously). 1-1 tutoring outside of school could swing it, but not guarantee it. It would also depend on when the tutoring started.

I wouldn't recommend pushing a child beyond their abilities either. I once taught a student who had target grades of A* for everything based on her KS2 results. This did not reflect where she was at at school and she ended up having a breakdown under the pressure to achieve.

While it is also possible to cram kids to get them an A at GCSE, this isn't necessarily in their best interests if it then gives them the idea that they can tackle A-level. Despite having the grade, that doesn't necessarily mean they have the ability.

My elder DD is at a superselective and while it should be possible for all the girls there to get As it is by no means a certainty. Even if they have ability, lack of motivation, poor teaching (a messed up controlled assessment) or even bad luck on the day can mean the difference between A and C grades for example.

I am sick of hearing that GCSEs are easy. They are not. I think they are much better taught than they were in my day, and the exam boards are clear about what gets the marks. The average children I know are happy to get Bs and Cs and are realistic about their abilities. I think the parent needs to be realistic and encourage but not put the pressure on.

mumblechum1, I did GCSEs last year and didn't find them difficult, but business studies was one of the subjects which involved a little extra thought, analysis, application and evaluation.

An average child can do very well indeed with the right support and the right attitude.

The grades at my DD's secondary school attest to it. It is not particularly selective (not fully comprehensive academically, but certainly mixed) but the GCSEs are superlative. Almost 100% getting A-C including English, Maths and an MFL. The A*-A grades are around 70%.

If expectations are high and the girls do the work then the grades will come.

cinnamonnut, yours must have been a different syllabus/board then; I idly decided to do a business studies practice paper one afternoon with zero reading/prep and got an A, as it was all just multiple choice

It was a bit like those questions on the driving theory test, like, why should you raise a casualty's bleeding arm in the air:

a) to make them visible
b) to stop them bleeding on other people
c) to slow blood flow to the wound

hmmmmmm i was going to mention a levels.surely the point of getting good gcse results is that you then carry onto a levels - ds was pretty much an a grade gcse student with a bit of tutoring but a levels are a different kettle of fish.much much more difficult i am told.

"mycat" DS would certainly agree with you there; he breezed through his GCSEs, getting mostly As, and Bs in some subjects he did virtually no revision in, but is struggling with A level Chemistry and working really hard at all the others to get good grades.

It's a massive step from GCSE to A level in the sciences, at least, imo.

wordfactory - what do you mean by 'not particularly selective'? I would be very interested to know the percentage of students are designated 'high achievers' and 'low achievers' at KS2 going into your school for a comparison!

My school, which, as I said is high achieving for a comp has under 50% of its students being high achievers. Thomas Telford which is the top comp in the country has 67% of its students as high attainers (and only 1% low attainers). For comparison, I looked up a school that doesn't get great results - 45% of its students were low attainers at KS2 and only 15% high attainers.

It is possible that you think that your school is mixed, yet actually most of the students should be getting good results anyway, given the KS2 starting point and don't actually represent the 'average student'.

Those saying that GCSEs are easy should bear in mind that they are designed to be taken by 16 year olds, and someone far older looking at a Business Studies paper (for example) will have the benefit of experience lacking to a secondary school student.

Example papers which are on the boards websites are well known for being easy as they are there to give an idea of the type of questioning. For Business Studies, there are 2 exams and a controlled assessment. Depending on the board is the style of paper 1 (Edexcel use multiple choice, whilst AQA don't) but the 2nd paper, where the higher marks are generated are long answer questions requiring a lot of analysis and evaluation.

Business Studies actually has a lower A, A* statistics than most 'academic' subjects due the complexity and maturity needed to be when in the answers for the higher mark questions and controlled assessment which are completely underestimated due to the negative snobbish attitude given the subject

noble obviously I don't know the whys and wherefors of all the pulis but the ISI report says the ability profile is mixed with 'a fairly wide spread of abilities represented.'

There are certainly pupils with SEN who receive learning support. And there are girls for whom English is not their mother tongue.

It is a private school and the intake is from largely professional backgrounds.